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主题:【原创】哥本哈根协议 -- 橡树村

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      • 家园 圈里相信这个的没几个。

        圈里相信这个的没几个。不过圈里人对外没有这么说的,都是冠冕堂皇,对内则说这是我们的面包。

      • 家园 甲烷的效果

        是二氧化碳的20倍吧

        • 家园 甲烷的效果

          由于甲烷的衰减要比二氧化碳快上很多,所以不同年限,甲烷的效果与二氧化碳来比较是不一样的。

          IPCC,也是国际上通用的做法,是以二氧化碳的温室气体潜能GWP为1,甲烷在20年时间的时候,GWP为72,100年的时候,GWP为25,500年的时候,GWP为7.6。

      • 家园 甲烷的问题

        1990年代以来,甲烷的增长率已经下降,同时大自然的甲烷排放量很高,人类的排放相对低,所以相对声音小一些。

        另外一个问题,只要谈到甲烷排放问题,就会涉及到湿地和牧业、水田农业,就是牵扯到生态保护问题,牵扯到人的吃饭问题。这个问题比二氧化碳要敏感太多,估计一些国家还不好意思放在桌面上谈,只是派一些无良科学家发出一些杂音罢了。世界上对于甲烷排放的控制,也就是个别深绿小国感兴趣。

        无论如何,节能减排永远是对的,替代能源对可持续发展也有好处,大方向没错,估计中国也就趁机凑热闹了。

      • 家园 气候变暖本来就是个忽悠,忽悠的人多了也就成了真理

        那些摇旗呐喊者,无非都有自己的利益在里面,谁又真的会相信那些所谓的预测呢。我从会议刚开始的邮件门,就预感到这次会议注定是要失败的。中美两国都是各管各,根本不鸟欧洲,怎么可能达成一份协议,说不定哥两早就达成默契了,就是让大会达不成协议,因为减排最大的得利者是欧洲,关键是欧洲没有那么大的影响力,让大家都减排啊,所以注定了欧洲就是个茶几,摆满了杯具和餐具。。。

      • 家园 丹麦也太小家子气了!如果真想达成协议,对其他国家就要

        把自己的身段放灵活、柔软一些(more flexible)。既要把中国的减排标准吊的那么高,让中国放缓发展,又要中国花钱买你的技术;等于让中国坐在一边的破板凳上,看着老欧们吃香的喝辣的!

        丹麦主席在会上提的协议草案,一稿、二搞、三稿、四稿,基本上都是一个模子。一厢情愿的事,怎么能搞得赢?

      • 家园 这句话读了很欣慰,“中国相关高层私下里的意思很明了。。“

        “气候变暖说白了就是一个唬人的话题”

        政治局诸公没白接受工科教育,吾国吾民幸甚。

        前两年小布什还在台上时,内政外交搞得一塌糊涂。我有次跟媳妇聊天,说这人做的这么差,想当年2000佛罗里达选票重记事件时,最后宣布布什获胜我是很欢迎的。现在回头看,如果有仙人告诉我布什未来的政绩,我那时还会为布什加油吗,自问自答,认真想了想,结果还是为布什加油。

        不为别的,只为他那竭斯底里的极端环境主义对手。

      • 家园 欧洲这次挺不爽的

        看了法国国家电视台的晚新闻,采访刚回来的环境部长,后者一脸沮丧,虽然没说会议“失败”,但表示基本上没什么成果。看来欧洲确实对这次会议期望值很高。

        刚刚看到的有趣新闻:

        奥巴马不请自来闯入中印四国会议

        中美印等五国在哥本哈根达成初步声明

        最后的文本基本上是中美协议,欧洲的主张没有得到响应。

        • 家园 UN秘书长声称努力没白费,取得成果

          http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/12/19/copenhagen.climate.summit.deal/index.html

          U.N. chief: Climate change deal reached

          Copenhagen, Denmark (CNN) -- U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon said Saturday a "deal has been reached" that could be the framework for a binding global climate change treaty.

          "Finally we sealed the deal and it is a real deal. Bringing world leaders to the table paid off," Ban said, according to CNN affiliate TV2 Denmark. "The Copenhagen Accord may not be everything that everyone hoped for but this decision of the conference of parties is a beginning, an essential beginning."

          Moon said the non-binding deal called for all countries to limit global temperature rise to below two degrees Celsius.

          He said the deal was a step toward creating a legally binding treaty.

          "The deal is backed by money and the means to deliver it. Up to $30 billion has been pledged for adaptations and mitigation," Ban said.

          Critics of the U.N. Climate Change Conference have said that without specific commitments from the leaders to actually cut carbon emissions it would be difficult to reach any target.

          Environmental group Greenpeace released a statement criticizing the deal.

          Video: Climate deal reached

          Video: Copenhagen deal a 'first step'

          Video: A tale of two scientists

          RELATED TOPICS

          * Global Climate Change

          * Barack Obama

          * Copenhagen

          "Don't believe the hype, there is nothing fair, ambitious or legally binding about this deal," Greenpeace said. "The job of world leaders is not done. Today they shamefully failed to save us all from the effects of catastrophic climate change."

          U.S. President Barack Obama praised the deal Friday before leaving the conference in Copenhagen, Denmark.

          "For the first time in history, all major economies have come together to accept their responsibility to take action to confront the threat of climate change," Obama told reporters.

          The president said he met with leaders from India, China, Brazil and South Africa, and "that's where we agreed ... to set a mitigation target to limit warming to no more than 2 degrees Celsius."

          It's a nonbinding goal, and the emissions targets "will not be by themselves sufficient to get to where we need to get by 2050," Obama said. However, he added that it is a first step, and that for many countries "this is going to be the first time in which even voluntary they offered up mitigation targets."

          "I think that it was important to essentially get that shift in orientation moving," Obama said.

          The president said he believes it's necessary that the countries get to a legally binding treaty, but said, "If we just waited for that, we would not make any progress."

          The deal calls on nations to submit their "concrete commitments" into an appendix attached to the agreement to specifically lay out each country's intentions for climate change, Obama said. Those commitments will be subjected to an international "consultation and analysis" that will help foster accountability among the nations.

          "It will not be legally binding, but what it will do is allow for each country to show to the world what they're doing," Obama said, "and there will be a sense on the part of each country that we're in this together, and we'll know who is meeting and who is not meeting, the mutual obligations that have been set forth."

          Another senior administration official had said the precise details of the agreement were still in some flux, so it was unclear whether the final version would include language that was in earlier drafts aimed at forcing nations to set legally binding targets for reducing emissions.

          The president worked behind the scenes on getting a vote among key nations -- including China and India -- to approve the agreement before taking it to the wider group for a vote, according to the official.

      • 家园 你是研究气象的?
      • 家园 外行请教一个问题

        明末是冰河时期吗?不是天下大旱吗?

        明末之前那次冰河期是什么年代?

        上花。

        • 家园 唐末元末明末清末都是低温期,对农业社会影响很大

          点看全图

          外链图片需谨慎,可能会被源头改

          自然农业的皇朝纷纷在气候低温期崩溃。而北宋的繁荣则是在温暖期间。

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