主题：【整理】zt China helpEurope, AF -- parishg
家园 到目前为止还没看到中国有什么实质动作，基本是欧洲一厢情愿 家园 the total rescue plan depends on China's capital injection. EFSF will be leveraged up to 4 times and Germans will not give one more penny. Therefore, the leverage part, the difference between 1.4t and 240b remaining money will be borrowing.
And it is clear that China is the ONLY lender.
Without explicit secret promise, Sarkozy will not dare to set up the rescue package in this way. It is time to admit that China is behind it, friend.
Do not expect CCTV to disclose deal details in Chinese. It is not needed in a system where leaders are not held responsible to voters.
家园 现在再看你的断言，感觉如何？ 开口就是CCTV不会告诉你什么的，但却对明显利益相关方自己放出来的各种匿名人士捕风捉影的自我吹嘘深信不疑，是因为真心相信欧洲领导人要对选民负责所以欧洲媒体就成了正义化身、会完全不顾自身利益的报道真相么？参照你对欧洲的不喜欢，还真是个矛盾的心态啊。
以后还是有一分证据说一分话吧。。
"And it is clear that China is the ONLY lender.
Without explicit secret promise, Sarkozy will not dare to set up the rescue package in this way. It is time to admit that China is behind it, friend.
Do not expect CCTV to disclose deal details in Chinese. It is not needed in a system where leaders are not held responsible to voters. "
【G20无意投资EFSF 周五欧股跌收1%】德总理默克尔表示，峰会未就推进EFSF(欧洲金融稳定机制)达成协议，几乎没有国家有意投资。
家园 教授是美国式的思维，市场式的 认为透明的才好，中国老是密室交易，参考以前例子的失误，很难不让人担心。
中国式则认为密室交易有可能有台下的好处，技术的或者其他，以密约的形式。
说不上谁对谁错。精英们是爱国或者负责任，还是无能自肥，没有足够的信息，无从判断。没有信息的时候，戒心高一点不是坏事。教授在市场混久了，这是本能。
家园 those news all have their sources. There were secret agreements before, but was dismantled by the top leadership in China in the final stage. Without any implicit promise in the past, Sarkozy will not specifically call Hu last week.
http://baike.baidu.com/view/106100.htm
read your own history. It happened before.
Chinese investment funds did lots of stupid things before, and Blackstone/Morgan Stanley was just one of them. In Europe, you can check the Fortis bank investment by one Chinese insurance firm before 2008. We are in the financial service business and we know how stupid some top finance officers are.
AND ALL THOSE STUPID INVESTMENTS were made through secret deals behind close doors in the past, to enrich those financial elites in China and US. Now is just the European's turn.
this time, average Chinese also expressed strong opposition throughout the internet, that's why the top politicians have to be a bit more careful. Finally, The Greek referendem farce just kills any hope of BRIC rescue. Actually, Brazil also promised to help, but has backed off this week.
My point is very simple: Chinese money should be used for Chinese people's welfare/benefits, not for Europeans, NOR
for a group of financial elites who are managing billions/trillions for China now.
They are just managers/paid agents for Chinese people.
Let's avoid each other.
家园 说道傻瓜投资的幕后交易 我就想起军坛上流传的在尖端军用技术上的商业合作, 限制类精密加工设备的流动, 这里面出现的大头企业, 又比如联系一些热钱的流动和放出, 这其中出现的具体的财团名称, 与某些设备提供者的直接关联, 总有一种有趣的感觉.
西方总是说TB间谍盗窃他们的技术, 但很多时候, 也许那些都只是非公开的国家企业间的商业行为而已, TB或许额外的为这种交易支付了更多的费用, 而这些费用或有一部分存在于"败家子"的"败家行为"之中.
家园 欧洲金融稳定基金CEO：中国已购买EFSF债券 http://finance.ifeng.com/news/hqcj/20111028/4951556.shtml
虽然语言不详但恐怕不是空穴来风
家园 then Greek PM proposed a referendum, which scared out the shit even for those pro-European financial elites back in China.
不怕狼一样的敌人，就怕猪一样的战友--and Greek PM clearly belongs to the 2nd category. One man played a political gamble at the expense of his own nation as well as ALL THE EUROLAND.
语言不详但恐怕不是空穴来风--secret agreement broke down just in the last moment. that's it.
家园 What's secret agreement
家园 100b is too small to solve Europe's problem. Europe needs to get a large amount from China. Japan and other BRIC nations will be used as leverage to induce China to pay out. B/R/I do not have large enough reserves for rescue use at all.
家园 逆向阴谋论而已 “因为政府不会告诉你这些事，所以这些事必然发生了”
就像上一版你说无条件，如果不是出了这一版，你还是可以用这句话来说：其实zf已经卖掉你们了只是你们永远不会知道。
允许他们借用tg名义增强信心，说不定也是交易的一部分；而不是实质的付出。cctv不说全部的真相是常识，但你要说法新社BBC之类会得到并且公布全部的真相，那也是很天真的。
- 复 逆向阴谋论而已
家园 let's wait and see. I wish I will be wrong, because if FT, Bloomberg and I are correct, China needs to/is gonna lend to at least USD 900b to 1t to IMF to achieve the desired firepower for EFSF (1.4t power, EFSF has only 250b left after the Irish/Port. rescue). That's almost 1/3 of China's current foreign reserve.
That's a very large strategic move. Last time when Asia was in economic crisis in 1990s, Asians were pretty much kned on the ground, begging with all the tear for a few billion dollars loans from IMF or World Bank.
I am old enough to live through that history and I will never forget. This time, Asians prove to be too nice.
家园 很不辛，你听到消息是真的 之所以有很多所谓内幕消息出来，是你另外帖子说的，中美金融共同体小圈子在中美两国之间都是被羡慕嫉妒恨的，所以其他的圈子的把细节想办法透露出来，让密约不秘密时候就不是约定了。
一个例子，当年李鸿章为了以夷制夷联合俄国抵御日本影响，和俄国人签订了《中俄密约》，结果密约泄露，激起各国强烈不满，最终俄国并没有拿到密约中的利益。
家园 如果真是这么大数额的话，我的第一直觉是不可能 如果真是这么大数额的话，我的第一直觉是不可能。
中国如果出这么多，无非是卖掉美国国债，转买欧元。这么大的数额，即使中国愿意，美国会答应？那中国卖的国债，让谁接手？
所以，我认为基本不可能，即使有的话，数量也远远少于你所披露的
家园 数量也远远少于你所披露的 my hope too but there are moments where China's gov. made decisions shocking enough to average Joes. My jaw dropped when Wen rushed out the 4t temporary stimulus plan in early 2009.
Rather than temporarily depressing the housing bubble, Wen created a permanent ticking housing bomb for each average Chinese back in China.
Have you asked why so many rich middle class in China are now rushing for emmigration? I know Canada immigration dept. was flooded by applications from Chinese... trust me.