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主题:【原创】再谈谈叛徒问题,并谢野狼兄和公鲨老 -- 史文恭

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家园 呵呵,假如问俺为啥能够在党史方向写一点帖子的话,

那是因为,俺引用材料的时候不是因为材料的作者是否八卦大家或者“右派”,而是他的材料是否经过检验,有无明显的错误。

所以俺一般在对一个问题或者观点提出意见时都会给出根据。----因此,关于叶永烈对江青的表述,假如您认为有很多“八卦”或不符合事实的地方,不妨举出来,这样或许更有利于您的观点吧。

家园 风筝兄指点的对啊。。惭愧,惭愧。。

家园 两首都不错

这首更好一点。还真不知道张春桥还有这手。

家园 就是,人汪兆铭年纪轻轻就亲赴帝都刺杀摄政王

xxxxxxx在那个年纪在干啥?

都这样,西西河成了泼妇骂街了。

家园 前一首感情略显直露,意境不够

后一首则直接让人联想起庞德的风格,张春桥要在现代诗上深入下去,水平还真难以估量。

家园 你来迟了。

自我应用,原帖在下面。

“我不认为张春桥人品比谁差。是史文恭说人张春桥水平差。

我不认为张春桥人品比谁差。是史文恭说人张春桥水平差。

一个是发展到烂熟的古诗,一个是现代诗,而且那还是现代诗方兴未艾

的时候,你也好意思比,你水平真高。

还要比是吧,论对资产阶级的全面专政 怎么样?

之后的找一篇盖人家这篇。”

家园 呵呵

汪精卫写的诗写得比张春桥漂亮, 那能代表什么, 能代表他不是汉奸吗?

诗写得再好,人品像屎。

再说了, 张春桥十七岁写诗,跟人家史文恭十七岁在做什么,有什么好比的?

呵呵
家园 是他史文恭说人家张春桥水平差的,那当然就要比一比了。

是他史文恭说人家张春桥水平差的,那当然就要比一比了。

他可以讲张春桥人品差啊,没有问题,说人水平差,这就有问题了。

我就奇怪了,人张春桥差在什么地方?

理由他也给了两条,你慢慢看。

家园 叶永烈关于徐明清和江青关系的说法就是不实的

由徐明清家人编写的《中华之魂星辰谱》徐明清一篇中就直接说过:“作家叶永烈在《蓝苹外传》中也对徐明清同志进行了一些不符合实际的描写。”

这本书的编委会都是第一代高干的子女们。

还有,朱仲丽的《江青野史》涉及徐明清和江青的关系严重失实,是中央发文件点名批评的。

家园 朱仲丽当然是大嘴,这是她自己都承认的。

至于叶永烈的说法,具体哪里“不符合实际”,阿雪最好明示啊,----俺其实这帖关于江青部分除了引用叶永烈的《江青传》,而不是《蓝苹外传》以外,还同时引用了张颖的文章,并没有特别失真的地方吧。

家园 恩,

不错,先是瞒天过海,然后李代桃僵,现在又自哙而下,最后呢?莫非还要来点桃色,来以色为本不可?

家园 这我具体就不清楚了

那本书里面点名的就有叶永烈。

另外《江青传》和《蓝萍外传》之间的差别也不大。

江青写自首书的最早来源,就是中央专案组出的罪行材料中号称由徐明清供述的部分(实则是假材料),由朱仲丽演绎到她的书中。随着徐明清的平反,这些东西都被澄清。

家园 Roxane Witke书中相关记载节录

以下均引自Roxane Witke的Comrade Chiang Ch'ing:

1.

No matter how obtuse she tried to be, though, the police were unshakable in their determination to investigate her revolutionary connections. Their persistence, she later learned, was triggered by a "woman traitor" among the prisoners, who tipped off the police by telling them that Li Yun-ho (Chiang Ch'ing) was not so naive as she pretended.(P91)

2.

Among the political offenders was a woman worker who had been detained in that prison for eight months by the time Chiang Ch'ing arrived. Her story, Chiang Ch'ing said, was typical of many good comrades who were duped by Party renegades. In this case the renegade was a prison official dubbed Hei Ta-han (literally, Big Black Chinese, a nickname drawn from bandit argot and applied here to a man whose badness lay in betrayal of the CCP), a man formerly associated with the "erroneous leftist line" of the Wang Ming group. Born in Anhwei province, Hei Ta-han became a Communist and served on the Kiangsu Provincial Committee of the CCP. In the course of political work in Shanghai he was arrested. Within two hours he betrayed the Party by joining the KMT secret police, but he still pretended to be a good Communist. As a secret KMT agent he became involved in a case that made him the model of infamy in leftist circles. There was a certain woman comrade he knew and was determined to destroy. For days he pursued her, finally tracking her down to the French Concession, where she was living in relative political immunity. He won her confidence and told her that her identity had been revealed to the authorities; her life was in grave danger; she should move her household immediately and take all her Party documents with her.(P91-92)

3.

Soon another lot of newly arrested women arrived. As Chiang Ch'ing glanced over them, she was astonished to recognize among them five or six of her former students. Through the prison grapevine she learned that the Party had commissioned two of them to deliver the money, bread, and quilt to her. Their pouting expressions betrayed their resentment of her; they suspected that their handling of her relief packages was the incriminating act that had led to their arrest. Infuriated that these women should be punished unfairly, Chiang Ch'ing demanded the right to speak to the prison administrators. Flanked by guards who led her to the main office, Chiang Ch'ing stood before the administrators and denounced them loudly: "You failed to catch real comrades! Nor do you know how to catch real women! You've only nabbed a few girls who were kind enough to send me a blanket.. Why don't you shoot me?" Swelling with rage, Hei Ta-han struck Chiang Ch'ing across the face. She was stunned and barely able to keep on her feet. He swore at her in foul language. She shot back, "How dare you curse me!"(P93)

4.

If the girl carried out her instructions, nothing came of them. As a last resort Chiang Ch'ing decided to use foreign connections because she knew that prison officials were frightened to receive foreigners on their premises. She told another former student who was about to be released to arrange for a foreigner from the YWCA to come and guarantee her. That worked. A foreigner arrived, testified to her innocence, and she was released.(P94)

家园 其实,俺看关于江青的资料是之前在写大河入海处时

就看过了,其中也包括特里尔的《江青全传》,所以,基本上看,叶永烈对江青在上海的描述不算出格,也没有特别失真的地方,而且老实说,特里尔做的功课比叶永烈要多一些,---之所以俺在原帖引用叶的《江青传》是因为手里有电子版,可以复制,粘贴,不用打字,,而特里尔的是PDF版。要OCR的话,太麻烦了。

嗯,有空应该把特里尔的那本节选一点发上去,其中一些关于江青在上海生涯的细节,是很有意思的。

家园 一言以蔽之,两大恶人之所以不当叛徒,非不为也,亦实不能也

预祝教头及各位同学新年快乐!

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