主题：买车求助。请各位兄弟帮忙 -- 煮酒正熟
at least based on Consumer Report survey.
In 2003-2006, Benz suffered from many component problems(mainly electrics) and was complained a lot. I lived in the O.C. then and several friends told me that they regretted for picking Benz.
Audi is NOT as good as Toyota Lexus. They are in the same niche of mid-to-up class.
Toyota suffered a major recall due to its poor AMERICAN SUPPLIER(brake). Its cars made and imported from Japan did not suffer from the same problems.
BTW, Germans use different production process when they make low-end brands (VW, Opel) vs. high-end brands (Porche, BMW and Benz).
everything is relative. You are right.
Even my French friends recommended AGAINST their own national brands, such as 却对超过雷诺、标志 and she was in favor of German cars. Fiat is a joke in Europe--only good for short/skinny/sexy Italians who do not worship horse power as much as Germans and Americans.
Everything is relative. In a less competitive and highly protective market such as Europe, VW did shame lots of Latin European brands.
I agree with most of your comments. Just add two cents here.
“3 就亚洲人的体格，其实日本的车型最合适，”
在北美市场的日本车都是为北美人的体格设计的，不因为是日本车就更适合亚洲人的体型。
--I do not know why. American ladies seem to like Honda cars a lot. Maybe American ladies and most Asians (men and women) share something there.
事实上，北美市场的主流日本车型大多是在美国设计的，主要在加利福尼亚的几个设计中心。
--yes, true. But a few high-end brands were designed in Europe for the global market. It seemed that Italy has many superior design shops. I do not know why.
“4 买欧洲车，如双B是现实身份，这个是可以理解的。不过VW的东西不没法和双B比，VW是中低档定位的买菜车哦”
这只是美国人和中国人的看法。在欧洲，差别没有那么大，两B没有那么“崇高”，
--yes. Benz and BMW are much cheaper there. My friend joked that his office janitor actually drives a BMW.
VW也没有那么不堪，VW推出Phaeton不是自己找死？
--Anyway, VW is partially owned by the owner of Porche. They share some expertise on high-end cars now.
Italians are superior in appearance management--NOT in solid production process management.
Best design shops are usually in Italy. Best luxury cars are from Italy too.
But the marriage of Fiat and Chrysler is like the marriage of two great losers--both car makers are at the bottom in terms of quality IN BOTH CONTINENTs: Europe and America.
I bought a Chrysler SUV long time ago, following the "Buy America" slogan. It was a biggest mistake in my life.
do not touch Chrysler. It sucks.
本来Porschede Wendlin Wiedking在Wolfgang Porsche的支持下，想玩一把蛇吞象，就差一步了，结果VW的Ferdinand Piesch（他其实是Porsche家族里的外戚）反戈一击，给Porsche来一个釜底抽薪，结果把Porsche买下了，所以现在是VW拥有Porsche。世界就是这么好玩。
VW在Piesch当CEO（现在是Chairman？）的时候，就特别注重质量，一心打造People's Benz。VW内饰和外装的设计和质量（指fit and finish）明显高于大多数欧洲车，至少不低于两田，肯定超过三菱、Subaru。
日本的日本车比美国的日本车小。比如Honda Accord，日标和欧标是一样的，在北美就是Accord TSX，美标Accord和中标一样，但在欧洲和日本没有。丰田Camry不知道有没有这个差别，但Avalon是北美特有的。
意大利的统一是近代的事情，这在意大利的工业分布上也看得出来，北方的工业明显发达。意大利人有design house的传统，意大利汽车在早期曾经是欧洲一极，意大利design house（主要集中在米兰-都灵附近）的一般工业设计也很厉害，像家具、厨卫，汽车设计厉害就不奇怪了。
FIAT seems to be more than a car manufacture. Before the 90s' it (with other oligarchies) rule over Italy. I don't know if Italy has changed over these two decades, though. If possible, please share your thoughts.
送花成功，可取消。有效送花赞扬。恭喜：你意外获得 8 铢钱。
参数变化，作者，声望:1；铢钱:0。你，乐善:1；铢钱:7。本帖花:1
除了Edmunds,有什么美国人常去的汽车论坛，他们分享自己买车做研究和dealer讨价还价的心得的网站？中国人干这事儿的多，不知美国人也是否如此？
还真把俺问倒了.. 这类网站肯定有，我也去过不少，但都是走马观花大致看一下就走了。俺个人的感觉啊，从购买者角度来说，这类网站的价值比较有限，无论是从讨价还价角度还是从选择适合自己的model, trim和配置这个角度。
先说讨价还价。
08年俺帮领导买车的时候，就在网上搜过不少东西，当然也包括讨价还价方面的，当时看到的最让人信服的说法就是：不要去dealership store跟sales讨价还价，而是从网上找到dealership的Internet or Online Manager，也不要去面对面谈价格，讨价还价全部通过电邮来解决；在这个基础上，再搞普遍撒网重点选择，也就是让所在区域的所有dealer给报价，然后挑2-3家比较靠谱的深入接触。
10年俺为买自己这部车做功课的时候，发现这个做法已经是非常主流了。
至于research，我是专家点评和车主review都看，但相对而言更重视专家点评。理论上，我觉得要想获得对某个车型比较全面客观的看法，要看车主review可能需要一万个，但要看专家点评的话只要看六到八个就差不多了。所以专家点评我每篇都会仔细看、反复看，而车主review就一扫而过了
经常去的网站有这么几个：
edmunds.com
MoterTrend.com
kkb.com (kelly blue book)
CarAndDriver.com
jdpower.com
reviews.cnet.com
再就是柴油车专业论坛了，比如
TDIClub.com
好像还有一两个，如果想起来了，再给补上。
如果老马丁是自己买车做功课用，上面这些应该就差不多了，但如果您是要做这方面的课题调研，那肯定不够
对了，最近车市有些新动向，挺有意思，如果得空，会写个帖子
俺家小懒猫
抱歉，看到时想回但没时间，后来有时间了又把这个贴给忘了。这种事儿在俺是经常发生的，不知有没有因此得罪了好朋友
俺的办法很简单，无论你是拿mpg的数字来，还是升/百公里的数字来，俺一概用234去除。
打个比方，45mpg，用234一除，得5.2，也就是百公里耗油5.2升
反之亦然。比如百公里耗油9升，用234一除，得26，也就是26mpg
确认一下在美国群众里通过互联网寻价还价是不是很普遍的行为，想为一篇文章弄些anecdotes.
TDI很漂亮呀。那个蓝色的I代表柴油驱动？看来是一个内部marker.
期待大作。
国内的华勤集团建成了年产50万套DPF的生产能力
忽然发现，这个华勤居然是全球最大的输送带生产线，还是倍耐力和固特异的中方合作伙伴。