主题：一些说明 -- 葡萄

我曾经熟悉的一家大浴场在一个中国国传统节日中一次性扫荡出近2000名这样的人员当时引以为奇观，很是震撼了一把。

--Roman aristcrats understood that you need to share gains to please all walks of people in a society so that you can get solidarity against foreigners. Bath is just one example. My point: do not just talk about "grand empire", pay attention to 民生, even if such issue is so trivial and might not bring glory to great leaders--average Joes only care about their daily life.

好言归正传，从你的字里行间似乎很在意，那些被称呼为保民官的制度，那些被称呼民主的雅典团队。

--keep in mind, Rome was not a democracy, it was a Republic--so is today's America. I know who truly rule America. It is not Obama. I never cried for the popular democracy practiced in Athens(if you read my posts carefully). I know the dark side of mob democracy.

让雅典人在伯罗奔尼撒战争末期，在斯巴达率领的联军兵临雅典城下的时候，雅典民主可以毫不犹豫的杀死他们最后的有作战经验的军官。

--Athenian mobs did many stupid things. You do not need to teach me on that. Both of us know how Socrates died.

而作为罗马的守护的凯撒们，又是如何在他们数不清的头衔中不经意的把保民官夹杂在其中的。随后的罗马是怎么样的罗马呢？是百年战乱的罗马。即使之后有五贤帝的灵光，罗马终究毁灭在野蛮人的手中了。

--Average Romans were squeezed into poverty under the rule of Czars. The royal family enjoyed lavish life and used inflation to rob the free Romans. Use today's term, "middle class" was destroyed and the top dogs were corrupted--very similar to today's America.

--Why Rome was defeated: Nobody wanted to sacrifice for this empire, the Czar's personal property, because AVERAGE ROMANS HAVE NO STAKE in the prosperity of Rome anymore.

--Key point: share gains so that every Chinese WILL HAVE STAKE in his or her motherland's future.

在我看来，你试图在相信，一个把利益给民众分享的统治集团，一个给予本国公民起码的公正与公平的社会，可以避免今天在中国的domestic tensions。

--In today's world, talents and money can move across border easily. If you do not care about their welfare, nor do you respect their fundamental rights, do not expect them to be patriots. 君视民如草介，民视君如仇寇,simple. I am concerned at China's long-term stability. Many rich friends share the same concern. You know what I am talking about.

--Do not believe in the hype of patriotism. Human beings care about their interests and rights first, then community's interests and patriotism. ESP TODAY'S CHINESE.

但是今天中国的现状在于，我们遇到的危机依旧是那个150年前我们先贤们狂呼的千年未有之巨变。

--if you talk to average Joes on the street of Beijing or Shanghai, trust me, 90% of Chinese do not give a shit about so-called 千年未有之巨变. What average Joes care: whether any sacrifice proposed by the gov can really benefit me in the long or short run. If not, why should I support?

我们从政治经济文化科学军事乃至社会经营与建设的方方面面都在世界上真正意义上的落后了。

--I am not surprised. The system is not merit-based. It is sort of like the Qing dynasty in its middle-age.

如果说我们建国三十年始终试图在摆脱救亡图存状态的恐惧的话，我们的改革三十年是在试图以从走资本主义原始积累的方式实现对世界先进国家的追赶与超越。而在现在中国这个改革再转型的关口，我们很多猛然发现，我们要面对的问题似乎再次回到了60年前，100年前或者说是150年前。

--Agree. If you read novels about Qing dynasty in 1800s, many similarities. I know you believe in the authorative elite-rule, but I believe in the benevolent elite-rule with open social mobility as well as care towards the less disadvantaged. If China can practise the Rome-style Republic with respect of its own citizens, I will be very happy. But I do not expect that to happen.

而我还有我很多的伙伴与朋友们始终最担心的不过是，如何在这个国家前进之余让这个国家继续保持旺盛的好奇心与朝未来发展的动力。

--meritcracy, simple. People have curiosity and ambition because they want to climb the social/business ladders. If only your family and your cronies control everything in China, how can those less advantaged people keep their enterprise?

在今天，你可以从中国论坛里各种声音对于现状的自满状态，看到我们期待的反面。

--agree. Chinese are like Italians.

而关于符合国家利益的利益集团这个话题里，在我看来你似乎没有更好的办法能改变中国社会的现状。

--We are small potatoes. I just hope to persuade people in power to change in the benevolent direction. China is big and huge, even Hu can not change it overnight.

其实就在今天，在和一个朋友讨论，一个关于这个国家统治集团子弟与寒门子弟在官僚阶层职务分配的比例的问题的时候。他一针见血的指出，这样的安排是试图在保持竞争力的同时在保证江山不变色。

--there are different ways of ruling.

Why can not those 统治集团子弟 rule by law?

Why must they occupy any gov/business key positions even though they are highly unqualified?

Why do not they just learn from the English elites as well as the old money families in New England??

在我看来，法律如果不能解决社会的实际问题，他就可以被忽视。

--who makes this judgment? As an elite, do not you think it is very dangerous to disrespect the FUNDAMENTAL TOOL OF CONTROL OF THE RULING CLASS? If you can selectively follow the laws, why couldn't average Joes do the same thing? An average Joe can come to your house, take your property and claim that rule of Robinhood should overrule the property right because 法律如果不能解决社会的实际问题. Do you want to live in such kind of life?

同样，法律的渊源来源自习惯，以及习惯的博弈。更确切的说，世界上即使有神赐予的不可侵犯的法律，如果他不能经过社会实践的检验，迟早也会被掩埋在历史的尘埃中。

--Before a law is changed in a legitimate process, it is still a law. I am not a philosopher. There is evil law for sure, but one has better push for legislative changes than use violent approaches to break the rule of law.

而作为对此的对应，作为社会公民这个个体。统治者要做的不是对某一个个体与某一类个体的恩惠与施舍。

--I am not asking for 恩惠. I am asking for the respect of some fundamental rights, 邓玉娇刺杀该镇招商办主任邓贵大一案--it is not about "favor", it is about fundamental social justice. In China, elites are ignoring some fundamental rights of average Joes. That's really alarming!

权利从来都要靠自己争取才会珍惜。

雅典的民主源自对僭主时代的记忆。而罗马保民官，源自公民对顽固罗马的离开罗马运动。

--that's because the aristcrats knew the meaning of "compromise". I do not see that in China. In China's contemporary history, what I saw were bloody revenges between two sides.

我们在这个时代只有通过发展解决问题，

--Yes, agree, btw... The GDP pie is growing at an annual rate of 8%, but how much of this progress is trickled down to the average joes?

同样我们在这个时代只有通过不断的积淀来处理国家、利益、与个人之间的关系，在这个新技术革命下社会组织不可避免重组的时代，乃至权力与义务之间关系需要重新诠释与定义的时代里，我们需要的只是通过走过的每一步去为大家共同生存的平衡点去摸索的那些积淀与努力。

--sometimes it might be better if you can write your points with simple Chinese.

In sum, admire your knowledge and also respect our agreements as well as disagreements. Really enjoy reading your posts.