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主题:中国GDP总额超过日本的意义 -- 陈经

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        • 家园 美国的制造业占全世界的1/4

          不要忘了,没有了康宁公司

          全世界的液晶产业,都要停摆

          更不用说芯片产业了

          我们在化工产业上,和美国还差得很远

          制造业不等于机械产业

          • 家园 有两种垄断

            一种是科技上的垄断,独此一家,其他人就是做不出来。

            一种是商业上的垄断,其他人也能做类似的产品出来,但是价格或质量上没有竞争力。

            不知道中美的差距,主要是体现在那种垄断上?

      • 家园 送宝。Penn effect现象,学习了

        一说美国的GDP,重中之重就是占70%的消费(consumer spending)。从广义上来说,这70%都是服务业。

        Penn effect现象是很明显的,计算GDP的时候,如何把掺水了的部分挤干呢?如果对应的服务业都按实际的效果折合为1:1的话,美国70%的服务业会缩水很多,可能总GDP和中国一样了,甚至比中国低了。

        谢谢:作者意外获得【通宝】一枚

    • 家园 不一样的GDP

      在网上看到这么一段精彩描述。

      There are three ways to calculate GDP, Expenditure approach, Income Approach and production approach. China uses the production approach to calculate, while West uses Expenditure approach to calculate. And in Expenditure approach, you get Consumption, Investment and Trade Surplus and add them together, you get GDP. Chinese way is different, we use different sector production added value and added them together. Since China has an old Soviet style statistical system, the people and infrastructure already there. So they use that resource to collect the data. It is convenient for them. For example, for industry, they only collect data from enterprise with over 500 employees. For those below 500 employees, they use the latest census proportion data. The census happened in every decade.

      In this way, there is no way to get Consumption, Investment data in West national accounts concept. But they have some other data that has been collected since 50s. So they use that as a substitute. So for Consumption, we got Total retail sales of social commodities, Chinese is called 社会消费品零售总额. The year 2009 number for it is 12.5 trillion, while the total GDP is 34 Trillion RMB. That is why the 36% consumption data come from. This consumption does not include any service consumption except hospitality industry. It does not include education, health care, housing, entertainment, financial, law service etc which all included in the West consumption concept. Chinese do not think education, health care, housing those kind of thing as consumption. Chinese regard those as cost/expense that reduce the ability to consume. If you know chinese and go to Chinese forum, you can find thousands of posts complain the high education/health care/housing cost prevent them to consume. In China, consume means buy real stuff. Apparently, they did not take economy 101.

      So use this number as consumption is way underestimated the consumption role in China economy. That is why with almost every consume products, China market size ranks world top2 and people still say we not consume at all. If you compare the US retail number’s percentage in their GDP, it will be very similar to China percentage. There rent is 10% GDP, health care 14% or 18% GDP and they have so many lawyers and a big fat Wall Street there. They are all classified as consumptions. American people must be very satisfied with their top-tier financial service consumption. :lol:

      Then let’s talk about investment. There is no investment data in West national account concept collected. Instead, they collect Fixed Asset Investment, Chinese term固定资产投资. This number has been collected for more than half century. The 2009 number is 22 trillion. People use this number as investment because it well collected and this number confused people. This number includes land purchase expenditure which exclude in West national accounts concept investment figure because they do not think it added any value to the economic activity. But in Chinese eyes, if you invest in a factory or building, you need buy the land and that is from their pocket, then of course it belongs to investment. Considered the high land price today in China, a big chunk of fixed asset investment is on land purchase.

      Another one is old land/building/equipment purchase,for example, you want to enter one certain industry, you either buy new land and build your facility and install new machinery or you can buy one old factory and kicked in right away. Chinese number included this old land/building/equipment purchase and West investment does not included. For Chinese, no matter old or new, your money spend on investment, of course it can be called investment. For West concept, it is just change hand without no new value added, so not included in their investment figure.

      One more part, is the Chinese fix asset investment figure does not included stock change, while the West concept do. We regard this as investment on fixed asset. So what hell is stock about. All these three things combine, you got a overestimated investment.

      For trade surplus, we do not include service trade surplus. China got a 30 billion deficit on a 280 billion service trade last year. Anyway it is not that big.

      BTW: China authority never claimed the社会消费品零售总额 is the corresponding part of West Consumption and 固定资产投资, the corresponding part of West Investment. The economics geniuses interpreter that way.

      所谓消费只占中国GDP的1/3原来不包括一大部分服务行业,而西方把这些都算进去了,并且是他们消费的大头。

      如果这是真的,那么长久以来的一个想法就是对的了:经济学家根本不懂自己说的数据从何而来,他们自己把自己绕糊涂了。

      • 家园 The part about fixed

        investment is wrong. Working capital accounts for fixed investment that generates revenue, and costs of goods sold includes depreciation of fixed investments

      • 家园 A link will be much

        appreciated

    • 家园 日本GDP中虚的比例比美国要少了,如果分析一下美国,

      其GDP更是花架子。如果考虑到RMB汇率被人为低估的情况,中国实际GDP应该很快就要超美国了。

      这当然是件好事儿,不过人民更关心自己的福祉。下面应该在改善民生、提高国民收入上做文章才行,否则有再多的钢筋水泥也没有用。

    • 家园 某些人不懂难得不知道去百度吗?

      国内生产总值共有四个不同的组成部分,其中包括消费、私人投资、政府支出和净出口额。用公式表示为:GDP = CA + I + CB + X 式中:CA为消费、I为私人投资、 CB为政府支出、X为净出口额。

      冷嘲热讽算什么本事?自家没房子只会唧唧歪歪.你就租一辈子吧

    • 家园 意义就是我们的人均GDP终于达到日本的1/10了
    • 家园 写的不错

      顶一个

    • 家园 中国以汇率计GDP超过日本,绝对是一个“非平凡”的事件

      随便吧,爱怎么算计就怎么算计好了。

      看着热火朝天的房价,我们都清楚,城市的发展即使和我这样的工薪族,那都是没啥狗屁关系的

      这才是为啥我对此很淡然的原因

      不知道别人怎么想的。

    • 家园 脑筋急转弯:GDP的算法

      妈妈做了20张大饼,让两个儿子每人拿10张到集市上去卖,一块一张。临走嘱咐:“只能花挣的钱”。一上午,就大儿子卖出一张饼,挣了一块钱。大儿子用这一块钱从小儿子手里买了一张饼,吃了。小儿子又用这一块钱从大儿子手里买了一张饼,吃了。一下午,两人把这二十张饼卖光,吃光。

      问:两个人这一天创造了多少GDP。

      关键词(Tags): #GDP
      • 家园 误会了,删除
        • 家园 知之为知之,不知为不知,是知也!

          利用税收记录来估算GDP是一种近似,没交税便不能计入GDP是这种估算法的系统误差,是要通过各种修正来尽量排除的。只有缴税才能创造GDP根本就是一个错误的概念,稍微想一想就知道是很荒唐的。

          美国关于联邦税收的宪法第十六条修正案二十世纪初才提出,到1913年才在大多数州通过,在这之前,美国GDP基本为零?美国现在SALES TAX在ALASKA, DELAWARE, MONTANA, NEW HAMPSHIRE, OREGON几州为零,那么这几州的零售业GDP就为零?中国前两年免除了农业税,和农业有关的GDP都归零了?

          知之为知之,不知为不知,是知也!

          关键词(Tags): #GDP
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