主题：【原创】恐怖袭击,都是民主惹的祸 -- 风123
家园 你错了，今天不敢明目张胆地杀害自己人 是因为还有别人可以去杀，你还有利用的价值，等到没有别人可以去杀，你没有价值的时候，你这个自己人也就变成了别人了。
家园 从个体生存的角度来讲，大家都愿意选择生在领先的民族和团体中 你当然的是对的。但是，不是所有人都有选择的啊！既然这个地球永远都是百分之二十统治百分之八十，我们又何必在优势打压劣势的时候喝彩，又何必在劣势反抗优势的时候惊诧呢？要知道，在食物链上，我们的屁股还是要离弱者近一些，这种状况至少我们有生之年不会有太大的改变。
至于致歉之说就不必了。跑题这种技术问题，谁都难免一点，尤其是在敏感话题上。反正网上的争论只是为了各自摆出自己的观点立场，谁试图说服谁都是不可取的。只要愿意交流讨论，大家都是河友。
家园 兄弟，你越扯越远了。。。
- 复 这有可比性么？？
家园 这不光是可比性的问题，这主要是转移话题 落后的当然是全方位落后，不光是技术上，也是政权组织形式上的。往远了说，中东落后和一团糟的直接原因，不就是帝国主义最近一百多年来的反复侵略和干扰吗！比如伊朗，被大英帝国就搞了好几把，直到二战期间还被伟大的苏联和英国联手占领一回，人家今天自己又进化到搞议会选举和民主投票的地步还真是不容易。但是，落后的民族和国家就没有集体自卫权了吗？就不能捍卫本国的领土和资源了吗？就不能阻止贪婪无耻的帝国主义冲进门来烧杀抢掠了吗？如果以上问题的答案都是否定的话，那岂不是连苟延残喘都成了问题，不论是否哪天还能翻身了。
历史上盎格鲁萨克逊人也不是一直领先的嘛。说句实话，现在他们是借用科技的力量，使得暂时的领先局面永久化，而且还要通过顶着“民主”光环的侵略，控制世界要地和资源，使得整体优势滚雪球一样越滚越大。偏偏有人就是要为人家当免费的吹鼓手，你说有什么办法。
你等着，马上就有人上来宣扬美国入侵伊拉克的正义性了。供大家参考，我先转一篇伊驻联合国大使的堂弟被杀害的新闻在底下：
家园 Iraqi Ambassador Accuses U.S. Marines of Killing His Unarmed Cousin Iraqi Ambassador Accuses U.S. Marines of Killing His Unarmed Cousin
By Edith M. Lederer Associated Press Writer
Published: Jul 1, 2005
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UNITED NATIONS (AP) - Iraq's U.N. ambassador accused U.S. Marines of killing his unarmed young cousin in what appeared to be "cold blood" and demanded an investigation and punishment for the perpetrators.
In an e-mail to friends obtained Friday by The Associated Press, Ambassador Samir Sumaidaie said the killing took place in his ancestral village in western Anbar province, where U.S.-led forces have been conducting a counterinsurgency sweep aimed at disrupting the flow of foreign militants into Iraq.
His cousin Mohammed Al-Sumaidaie, 21, a university student, was killed June 25 when he took Marines doing house-to-house searches to a bedroom to show them where a rifle which had no live ammuntion was kept, the ambassador said. When the Marines left, he was found in the bedroom with a bullet in his neck.
Richard Grenell, spokesman for the U.S. Mission, said acting U.S. ambassador Anne Patterson received a call from the Iraqi ambassador "and expressed her heartfelt condolences on this terrible situation, and contacted senior State Department and Pentagon officials to look into the matter immediately."
Sumaidaie said the killing represents "a betrayal" of the values and aspirations of Iraqis and Americans to defeat the terrorists and build a country based on freedom, democracy, and respect for human rights and the rule of law.
"It is a betrayal of the American people who are making huge sacrifices to bring this about, and a betrayal of Iraq and all Iraqi patriots who have put their trust in the United States," he said.
In the letter, Sumaidaie gave a detailed account of the tragedy.
Mohammed, an engineering student at the University of Techology in Baghdad, was visiting his family in the village of Al-Shaikh Hadid when the Marines knocked on the door, the ambassador said.
The young man rushed to open the door and greeted the group of about 10 Marines and an interpreter who appeared to be Egyptian pleasantly, "happy to exercise some of his English," he said.
The Marines asked if there were any weapons, and Mohammed said there was a rifle, which only had blanks, the letter said. He then led some of the Marines into his father's bedroom where it was kept, Sumaidaie wrote. His father, the local headmaster, was at school.
A short time later, his mother, brothers and sisters who were kept in the living room heard a thud but they were generally relaxed because they had nothing to hide, and "they thought, nothing to fear," he said.
But later a younger brother, Ali, was dragged by the hair into the corridor by a Marine and was beaten. The mother started sobbing. A Marine then went out and returned with a camera and went into the bedroom. After a while, the family went outside and waited on the porch as they were ordered, the ambassador said.
More than an hour later, as the soldiers were leaving, the interpreter asked the mother in Arabic if that was her son inside. When she replied "yes," the interpreter said, "they killed him!," Sumaidaie said.
"The mother let off a deafening cry of anguish, but the Marines were smiling at each other as they were leaving," he said. "In the bedroom, Mohammed was found dead and laying in a clotted pool of his blood. A single bullet had penetrated his neck," the ambassador said.
The ambassador wrote that he believed "a serious crime has been commited - a crime that may be repeated up and down Al-Anbar" and demanded an investigation into what he said appeared to be the "killing of an unarmed innocent civilian - a cold blood murder."
AP-ES-07-01-05 2112EDT
家园 伊驻联合国大使的堂弟被杀害 指控美军滥杀无辜 年仅21岁的堂弟在伊拉克被“冷血”杀害――
自美国军队进驻伊拉克以来，不时有美军滥杀无辜的新闻见诸报端。美国高层对此反复重申，美国士兵的行为多是自卫之举，而军方对美军犯罪嫌疑人的调查大多不了了之。
在这种政策下，伊驻联合国大使的堂弟可能是美军枪口下的另一个新冤魂。
美国兵笑着离开
美联社2日报道说，伊拉克驻联合国大使萨米尔?苏迈迪在给朋友的一封信中说，自己年仅21岁的堂弟穆罕默德?苏迈迪6月25日被美军在搜查行动中“冷血”杀害。
苏迈迪大使说，事发时堂弟在伊西部安巴尔省农村的家中探望家人，10余名进行搜查的美军海军陆战队士兵正好敲到他家的门。美军问这个年轻人家中有没有武器，穆罕默德把陆战队员带到了父亲的卧室，向美军展示了一把没有子弹的莱福枪。
但接下来，美军拽着穆罕默德?苏迈迪弟弟的头发把他拖到走廊，对这个年轻人拳脚相加。大约一个小时后，美军要离开时，他们的翻译用阿拉伯语问穆罕默德?苏迈迪的母亲他的儿子是否还在屋内，在得到肯定回答后，翻译告诉她：“他们已杀了他！”
大使在信中说：“母亲发出了撕心裂肺的哭声，而美国兵离开时则相视而笑。等母亲和孩子走进卧室后发现的只是穆罕默德?苏迈迪的尸体和早已凝固的鲜血，一颗子弹洞穿了他的脖子。”大使对凶案极其愤怒
大使说：“我对此事绝不怀疑，因为我已经弄确切了，这是严重的罪行，而这种罪行可能在安巴尔省四处重演。”他表示，这一凶案的影响无论对美国还是伊拉克都“极其严重”。
美国在伊发言人理查德?格雷内尔说：“美国驻伊代理大使接到了伊拉克大使的电话，他对这种可怕情况表示由衷哀悼，并已经同国务院和五角大楼官员进行接触，要求立即关注这一事件。”同以前美军杀害平民事件曝光后美军的表态一样，美军的这位发言人也称，这一事件涉及的是“联军部队”。马震（新华社供本报特稿）
家园 拜托，这里在讨论的是强国和弱国对杀的问题 你一上来就往弱国内部的政权组织形式上扯。弱国内部的混帐行为，并不构成强国去“解放”的充分条件，况且你要真当英美是去推广民主的，正好论证你的英明和天真。
我再问你呐，“作为库尔德人被萨达姆毒死”的时候，伊拉克由于自身科技力量有限，是请的谁帮忙高化学武器的啊？不是有个笑话吗，布什硬说伊拉克有大规模杀伤性武器，大家要他拿出证据来，你猜他拿出了什么？他就拿出了里根时期留下来的，萨达姆购买美国军火和化学毒气的收据！当然他还没呆到这个地步，但是事实摆在那里，怎么能上下嘴皮子一合就否定了。萨达姆刚开始是以“阿拉伯民族带头人”面貌出现的，他大规模杀自己人（库尔德人、其他穆斯林派别和共产党）的时候，还有他大规模杀伊朗人的时候，为什么西方连个屁也不放呢？倒是军火卖得欢，石油抽得忙，大家一团和气，关系好得很嘛。海湾战争之后，萨达姆倒是没有像以前那样大规模杀自己人了，但西方还是要斩尽杀绝，为此不惜开发出种种借口。你当大家傻的啊。
我一开始就指出你是在转移话题，逼得我也只好跟着你转移。现在话说回来，不论弱势无告的民族、国家和团体内部组织采取何种形式，不论其是否暴虐、血腥，在集体利益被强权侵害的时候总是要做出反应，这个道理你懂吧？所以，我们看到的是，组织程度最差的，采用的是人体炸弹、爆炸袭击的方式；组织程度稍微完善的，采取的是就地抵抗、满世界招兵的方式；国未破、家未亡的，比如伊朗，采取的是一边推进核武器研制，一边拉拢其他大国的方法，总之是设法自保。伊朗该是中东这一圈国家里最民主的了吧？人家总比美国的亲密盟友科威特、沙特、阿联酋等等要进化些。但美国人不管这个，“他要打总是要打，伸头也是一刀，缩头也是一刀”，偏偏还非要搞出一堆大道理。如果真的入侵了伊朗，不仅推广不了民主，还要把中东一个土生土长的民主样板活生生的摧毁了，硬给安上一个刺刀下的假民主，难道这就是某些人期待的？一句话，反抗主体的落后性（这个落后可能是全方位的，是技术上的，更是内部组织上的）并不取消反抗行为的正义性，反之亦然。
你还算肯举例子肯认真坐下来讨论的，另外一个同学就更具有“民主”作风了，上来就要求总斑竹出手，直接把我这样的言论封掉了账。我是不怕讨论问题的，只要弄清来龙去脉，大家各自摆事实讲道理，求同存异嘛！高呼民主的，要以理服人，首先要在论坛上讲民主。至少到现在为止主贴还是花多，这说明持不同意见者大有人在。对待这些声音，是用“民主”的办法杀光光，搞它一个“民主”的一言堂，还是大家共同讨论，各摆各的理，各吹各的调，让时间和事实来证明一切，相信大家自有见解。
