主题：【原创】围绕脑科学而发生的若干玄想 -- 鸿乾
still a dream, even in physics, basically in 乱扯 phase
relax,don't be bothered by what I wrote
请问Chomsky说“智能的本质不是算法，而应该是在物理上的理解。”的原话是？难道语法、语义能还原成物理上的理解？
语言离智能的本质肯定比物理更近，但也有局限性。聋哑人不等于智商为0吧？
你引的Hawkins的话就不忽悠，说的很明白：人工智能不是在复制、模仿人的智能，而是在增强、补充人的智能。这和我说的是一致的，机器和人是不同的认识系统。
难道Norvig和Chomsky就是美国智能科学的最高水平？那真得“求诸野”了。
物理学家一点都不boring么。
也很有启发性。如果有实验支持就好了。
可不可以这样说，虽然都是记忆，但是经验更类似于记忆片段之间的连接，或者序列，因此是个搜索到过程。
一个一直困扰我的问题是人的创造性思维是如何产生的。比如一个作家写小说，编剧本，虽然许多是生活中来的，但是如何拼凑成一个情节起伏引人入胜的故事，却不好用经验与记忆来解释，似乎人脑有这种随意在序列中穿插不同记忆的能力，而且还可以根据经验判断这样的穿插是不是合理。但是这个机制却不了解。
其实让民科去随意畅想，专家来审批把关，肯定大多数是不成立的，但是这样的配合也不错。人对一个领域越深入，思维也更容易受既成理论常识的限制，配以一些天马心空的科幻，其实是不错的组合。许多科幻的东西，比如星球大战电影中的许多东西现在都成了现实，这个不完全是巧合。
一个比较有效的寻址方法的确是不好找到，比如graph理论。但是生物体肯定有比较简单的机制，而且连接路径，与记忆信息的冗余可能都有帮助。
http://memeburn.com/2013/04/baidu-goes-in-for-deep-learning-with-silicon-valley-china-ai-labs/
http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/04/baidu-research-lab/
大概是借美国最近的AI热闹劲，搭便车吧。我提到百度是针对matt的说法美国这股AI热是骗人的，不过显然百度并不是这样看的，当然也许百度也被忽悠了，呵呵。
这个视频很好，看到植物根部活动那里，甚至有个错觉这不是类似神经系统的样子么，似乎一个很强烈的暗示在片子里就是植物的智能活动不但是存在的，甚至于动物的智能很可能是在同一个原理的基础上存在的。
这个片子给我个人带来的启发是在于把植物的行为用视频记录的方式展示出来，虽然这个都了解，但是真正看到还是会有不同的感触的。一直以来，我对植物的趋光性有个错觉是以为类似那个有名的“用进废退"的原理，但是在快速视频下观察，这实际上用“行为”来描述更准确，生长的确是植物的“运动”方式。另一个启发是概念的理解与直观（intuition)对我们大脑的感受还是不一样的，文字与PPT的区别也有类似的道理。
一个猜想是，这个所谓的“智能",是不是就是植物大分子级别上的复杂化学反应慢慢进化而来的呢，以致最终出现了一个整体上的“行为”模式，本质上是一种复杂的机械原理，甚至从人眼中看去，总有一种”智能设计"的感觉，就是那个“智能设计"教的教义，扯远了。
也许这种复杂的化学反应基础上的机械构造复杂到一定程度就出现大脑了，但是机制都是类似的。 视频中那个反应机制比较复杂的烟草类植物，因为可能相隔数百年才发芽生长，因为环境的不可预期性，因此进化出具备多重防御手段的体系，灵长类的大脑是不是也因为迁徙的原因，需要应付多变环境而进化出比较复杂的具有学习能力的反应系统-大脑呢? 对应鳄鱼那个例子，如果亿万年的环境都不变化，或者变化很小，那么依靠遗传基因作为学习与产生应付手段的机制也许自有其道理。
就是Norvig与Chomasky所争论的核心观点。Chomasky认为不去理解智能产生的物理本质，一层层的从哲学到心理学，从生物到化学，大分子，小分子，原子，电子之间的相互作用如何在大脑这个规模上产生出智能来，而去单纯到依靠从大脑对外界沟通的行为上来获取大量实验数据，然后使用数据挖掘来排除噪音，开发模型去预测去除燥，最后把这个模型当作大脑中的智能，这不是他心中的正确的科学探索方法.
chomasky认为所有科学史上的发展都是找到了内在的原理才解决了问题的，从来没有说把问题的所有表现行为特征的数据做成数学模型，然后把这个模型当作科学原理去指导未来的进一步探索。比如牛顿的万有引力，伽利略的日心说等等，考数据挖掘是发现不了的。
这两个人是不是代表智能科学的最高水平不了解，但是他们两人对这个领域的了解代表了最高水平应该可以从他们自身的位置与关心的问题看的出来。当然许多人一门心思做工作，有观点但是不愿公开在这个问题上多花时间，这样的人也是很多的。 你这个连接中也提到chomasky现在别人都说”看到他绕着走“，所以他自己才要自比伽利略了。
有的最高水平的人，比如做深度学习的那个现在Hinton也加入google了，忙都忙不过来，哪有心跟人探讨这些问题。
girls like competitive guys due to girls reproduction systems特征, competitive=money, power, etc, show me the money, in 社会场;
社会场 is a non "canonical (平衡正則) system" by definition: if nothing else, humanity needs to figure out an exit(from earth) strategy within next 1k years, where is the exit strategy? no, so all the social "canonical (平衡正則) system" basically=garbage, humanity crying for innovation, hating entropy!
物理学家 knows that too, but all their "AI", "么正性,因果关系, gauge, 測度, 度規" models are all pretty much based on all kinds of "canonical (平衡正則) system" and their various "wave" derivative forms, with no or weak interactions, they know very little about "full interaction model".
with strong or full interactions @global, "系综, 么正性, 因果关系,gauge, 測度, 度規, etc, the key physics/math aspects of the core of the white logic" all will be "destroyed", 1)爱因斯坦 gr's point of view, 2)and 热力学极限下相變, professor Li &Yang
so, AI has to be "social", and AI MIT meeting you commented did not have PHYSICISTs like Frank A. Wilczek participation, and google's statistical left over from physics cannot handle "full interaction", and nobody can handle "full interaction" in physics anyway, so AI=day dream, as long as full interaction model=still in dream;
欧美社会logic has to figure out issues such as low growth,high unemployment with US top 1% population=50% of us equity and bond ownership, huge cost spent for those us sys admin/top social scientists, and where is the innovation and exit strategy, except fed's qe?
so social sys admins=mostly top social scientists, and sys admin makes good money, girls like them;
and because of lack of "full interaction" model not even in physics, 山中無老虎,猴子稱大王, tg as china's top social scientists=king of china kingdom, 4 ever?
and from humanity sys admin point of view, system may need tg as a competition and a challenge to the white logic, pressuring the white to innovate/progress faster, and faster!
but fundamentally, although 塔山阻击战's kind of role assingment is good for tg, 人海战术 (as waste of human & environmental capital) model might not be good at all for the Chinese nation and Chinese people long term , 北京共识 is a fake, tg knows that, but what to do? for now, it gives tg some kind of 执政合法性, global humanity sys admin needs some one to play 藍军 role, and 藍军 happens to be tg.
北京共识 as a head fake("double top")=we may have seen the first top economically already, 2nd top=城镇化, tg's战略预备队, tg will work it out, one way or another, at lease 10 years of steady economic growth as a result, during x&l term, and that is very positive to world economy which is thirsty for growth, white like that, and for that and other reasons, white will work with tg, etc , 茉莉花 revolution almost impossible in china anyway, if you can't beat tg anyway, you better not even try, economics is more important to white anyway, they have to get their econ house together. top priority for them.
by the way, professor 杨 is a social smarty too, I thing between him and his father, they figured out a highly profitable "exit & re-entry" strategy to deal with tg's top 人精; look at those 两弹一星元勋二代, did tg二代 bother to share some happy hour/parties with them?
as the language post author said, 驕傲 is in our Chinese blood, those overseas "两弹一星元勋N代" will come back with 后发优势 copies to china, to narrow the science and technology gap between tg and the white, almost automatically, due to their Chinese blood systems特征 (惯性,静质量,花崗岩 culture brain, 6k years formation): 驕傲 is in our Chinese blood, the language post author made a very good observation, regardless of his political view,if he has one
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破缺的宇称 - 李政道主页
tdlee.ccast.ac.cn/TDbook/8BrokenParity.pdf - 轉為繁體網頁
檔案類型: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - 快速檢視
自然, 我们的讨论就很快集中到将伊辛结果向气－液相变 ... 很快杨和我严格证明了几个有关相变的定理,做出了具有实 ... 他首先询问我们关于巨正则系统的基础。显 ...
chomasky认为所有科学史上的发展都是找到了内在的原理才解决了问题的, kind of one of the aspects of "the white core of the white logic", making sense to me, that one is a long article, I have not really read it yet, but your comment is pretty much on the money, a good summary
没有可能一下子全部解决，就必须要考虑分层分块。
”理解智能产生的物理本质，一层层的从哲学到心理学，从生物到化学，大分子，小分子，原子，电子之间的相互作用如何在大脑这个规模上产生出智能来“，这肯定是终极目标。但是，这个终极目标是短期内，绝对无法达到的。既然如此，目前可以达到的目标是什么？分层如何分，分块如何分？
我个人认为，目前正在积极发展的方向，即从神经生理和心理的角度，向更微观进行，以及向更宏观进行，是两个非常好的方向。
向更宏观的方向进行的，其实就是Darpa的那个著名的要求，要求搞出一个从数学上可以把控的算法来，使得在某些地方可以比较好的重复一部分脑的区域的功能，即使是很小的脑的区域也好。
还有一个方向，就是层次更高的，即各种统计方法。这种先获得结果的思路永远是有用的，也是第一考虑的。就用Chomsky例子，在没有搞清楚牛顿的规律前，各种各样的行星模型大行其道，包括非常精确的模型（例如希腊的那个行星计算机）。这些行星模型自然是有用的。用这样的比拟来看，事情就一目了然了。各种统计方法，其实就是那种行星模型，极端有用，但是并不提供穿透性的认识。
但是，另一方面，脑的认知，恐怕归根结底是各种统计方法的某种物理实现，只不过人不自知而已。从这个意义上看，统计方法又有其非常核心的价值。很可能就像人家说的，人脑的理解语言的部分其实就是一个很精密很快速的隐马尔科夫链的决策机。
google、百度、deep learning、基于统计的智能都不是忽悠。但说因此人的智能可能被人工智能复制 / 赶超，就是睁着眼睛瞎忽悠了。
类似的路线包括研究胎儿和新生儿的智能（发展心理学），原始人的智能（人类学），病人的智能（临床心理学），动植物的智能（智能进化论？）等等。可惜今天主流的研究集中在MRI什么的上面，就像Chomsky说的，有用，但是是死胡同。
智能的本质 as a 社会集體认知系统, as opposed to that of a individual(but obviously we have to study individual 认知系统 as well);
for example: us 社会集體认知系统, how come that republican vp presidential candidate has been republican's top ticket? I listened to him 社会集體once on tv about his red neck econ logic, a joke;
obviously, there are many us systematic reasons, good and bad, tons of reasons there to explain things like this, but it also tells us that: politically, us 社会集體认知系统 pays huge cost in collecting and analyzing information for voters of a supposedly a democratic society of a global manager/leader, can AI provides a better model not to replace the current media/political campaign/brain washing(huge amount of money spent), but at least to help voters to be politically less stupid?
answer is: not, we have not even figured that out in economics, not to mention politics;
as an result of those "non-scientific" or 偽科學 nature of the current market economics and democratic politics almost globally, those "smarty" top social scientists took advantage of the current 带病上岗 system, and figured out how to brain wash and lead the "crowd" by family coaching, practicing/learning and a lot of luck, and become society's top leaders, and with 惯性, once top social scientists=4 ever, globally, and "real" scientists ended up as part of tool kit for those top social scientists, with a modest payroll, almost like Europe a couple of hundred years ago? when church leaders=top social scientists, at least co-managing the society, running the show for the mass;
tg's route is a little bit different, tg actually inherited and developed 馬列's whole series of models about 社会集體认知系统 and crowd's 觉悟系统 in particular, and that is part of reasons why tg is such a super effective social management organization of 1.5billion people, with all the "cost" discounted, tg inc is still highly profitable, low pe ratio stock, and everybody still loves it, even with the possible "double top" chart.
and the white can never figure that out, how come? as I said before, the current white never really understand their other white cousins 馬列's super models about 社会集體认知系统 and crowd's 觉悟系统, among other 馬列's models;
in terms of that kind of game, the white is too simple, too nave, way behind tg;
so unless white can figure out a new round technology break through based strong economic growth of many years, white will 自顧不暇 for long time, they will be too busy handling the class struggle between the crowd and elite in their society;
as a result, they will need tg's help from time to time in managing many international issues, and most importantly the Chinese market;
I think fb and goog have some ambitions in those social 智能 things, but as you said, fb guy is too young, not a bill gate's level; bill gate's math test result is actually later on a math publication; goog guys are all math guys, and they are over extended, kind of;
besides, we need break through in physics: 社会集體=强相互作用 system, a "full interaction" model, etc;
so, good for tg, many happy hours ahead
1. bad mouth on Chinese culture
6k years of social and humanity environment, any fundamental changes? I don't know, but with an example:
a tg retired senior (don't know how senior he is, likely minister level(retire @65) guy had a casual talk with me at a casual place here in US, not long ago, not knowing each other at all, so no any "risk", and we talked about tg's accomplishments and tg's strategy going forward, and specifically he talked about 和諧
2.和
2.1 禾, left side, food, economy;
2.2 口
right side reasonable free speaking political environment , politics;
禾+口=人民 happy
He told me, and my comment, that is pretty much a farm management system model for 牲口
3.
"鋤和日當午，汗滴禾下土，誰知盤中飧，粒粒皆辛苦"
=Chinese economy, politics, culture, language's 本征態, 静质量,惯性?
4. now china is a 世界工厂
but the Chinese culture is deeply in our blood system, and one of them is
中央 vs everybody else, and 中央=伟光正, everybody else follows 中央
I have written here before about the Chinese's 家文化, 中央=家長,家長 can 挣钱养家=great, big deal;
家長 out outside with 貌美如花 little 2 or 3 younger ones=ok, no big deal;
and in 中央's mind=we are the elite, no question asked, 天之骄子, 天 used to be universe,now 天=china, but sometimes tg dreaming about asia as well, when weather is nice
5.
if one wants to have a change in a system (a system with its known 本征態, 静质量,惯性,etc), one needs a great deal of energy with possibly 量子化条件, and to
质變, we need to have 相对论高能条件, where and how?
6.
with great china fire wall further enhanced by tg's military power with 相对论高能 capabilities for the foreseeable futures, if not 4 ever:
where and what will be the ”智能" of the Chinese nation and people as a whole?
that is why I said 北京共识 model is a fake, the worst part of it being the waste of human capital
what could be more valuable than human capital?
how could china contribute to and possibly lead the humanity's civilization development?