主题：【原创】西藏暴乱真相----我和一个美对华研究问题专家的争论 -- 新长城
家园 translate.google.com 貼上你要翻譯的話，或輸入你要翻譯的網址，選好要翻譯的語言。
家园 花，谢谢你的资料，非常有价值 家园 接上帖，字太多，一個帖子放不下。 4.
Re: Tibetan Protests NYC
Thank you Terri, you gives us again an perfect example of
misunderstanding of Buddhism as well as arrogency over history and
present of a country that you know little about. In buddist's point
of view, the present in even last second is history now. If you care
only the present, you should have not
respond to my post at all, which was HISTORY right at the time you
click to reply! So clearly this is only you excuse to justify your
biasd view towards Tibet and China, history and present. And you shall
not concern for so-called "suffering terrible hardship under China's
rule" , as it is HISTORY again when you know it. Cutting off history
could not give you a whole picture of Tibetan issue, it just let let
you feel plausibly right.
And I shall remind you that you shall follow Buddha himself instead
any other one if you admit you are a buddist. Again I shall draw you
attention to the fact that Buddha himself never intervene in any
political affairs even when his family and his whole tribe were to be
slaughtered.
I am also wondering how some westerners could have such unbelievable
gift for judging things happened in a piece of land they have never
been to and konwing little about. Actually most westerner rely on
others to feed them information the rest parts of the world as they
neither have been to there nor could collect information from there
themselve. So it is not rare that someone who could understand
neither Tibetan nor Chinese and has never put his foot on Tibet and
rest part of China accuses China of crimes that she did not commit at
all. There are always information and opinions from two sides. Based
on filtered second-hand information to reject one and embrace the
other does not comply with The Middle Way. There are millions of
official
and non-official documents and files testifying for China's
sovereignty over Tibet from the early 13th century in four official
languages that time, i.e.
Tibetan, Chinese, Mongolia and Manchu. And you can find many files
you could not see from English media such as why and how the Dalai
Lama lineage was broken after the 6th reincarnation in early 18th
century, the offical apprivals from Chinese governments entitling the
reincarnations of Dalai Lamas,
including the current one. And you could also find a full series of
the Dalai Lama's memorials to the throne in the past hundreds of
years. But unfortunately, most noisy westerm accusers could
understand non of those languages and simple turn a deaf ear to voices
from Tibet and China.
You would not likely to see such history and present of Tibet from
western media, and I believe most westerners don't have the least idea
how the old Tibetan codes allow slaveowners to buy & sell, punish
corporally, peel and kill slaves as they wish. And many westerners
don't know while they shout their concern to Tibetan people, the fact
that the current Dalai Lama used guts and organs from living slaves to
celebrate his birthday before he fled to India in 1959.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJ-yUIzA_OA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVBFy0fV_-w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ2h21ssWTE
And as to the present Tibetan, I need not to say much. Anyone who do
concern about Tibetan people, please go to Tibetan yourself and see
how they live now instead of put forward false accusation from a
country tens of thousands miles away from Tibet.
My suggestion to you and other fellow buddists is to concentrate on
buddism study and practising and stay away from politics as Buddha
himself did. Politics will distort our minds and pull us away from the
right path. And don't comment as you imagine about serious issues if
you actually know little about. As a sattva, an ordinary human being,
we could come to very wrong conclusion with limited secondhand
information.
5。
Re: [pdxbpf] Re: Tibetan Protests NYC
Thank you for your generous support of my practice. May wisdom and compassion prevail in this matter and the countless others that afflict our world. At least in this I think we can agree.
Peace in our time,
Terri
6。
Re: Tibetan Protests NYC
Yes, Terri, I do believe you and many others are endeavoring to bring
peace to this afflicted world. But politics is in no way the solution.
If politics
could bring peace to this world, Prince Gautama would have been a king
instead of Buddha. Let's follow Buddha's footprint and bring peace and
harmony to
our minds and the whole world.
And I also believe that most buddhists in western society are serious
about buddhism. But I wonder how they could have so much time to spend on
irrelevant matters like politics. In the oriental countries where
buddhism prevailing, serious buddhists shall study a full series of
Sutras and Upadesas
as well as long time practising of samadhi or Samatha & Vipasyanapass,
and then pass the examination of their gurus to ensure they do
understand the true
essence of Buddhism. Only after such strict training and practising, a
buddhist is qualified to help others in the right buddhism way.
Western buddhists
are fostered in a culture far away from buddhism, so it may be harder
for them to catch the exact meaning of Buddhism especially after
conversion of two
or even more languages. And one frustrating fact is, most western
buddhists have very limited acess to Tripitaka, which is known kept
only in Pali,
Tibetan and Chinese, not in English or any other western languages.
Without the guidence and proof from Tripitaka, they shall be less
confident of their understanding of buddhism than they are, and spend much more time on
study and practising rather than involving in politics, which is very
likely to leadordinary people go astray.
Many thanks to Terri, Jan and all reading the posts. Let's focus our
limited life on buddhism, learn harder and practise harder to expedite
the achievement of bodhi both for ourselves and for others.
本帖一共被 1 帖 引用 (帖内工具实现)
家园 逐篇花。 家园 人分两种，被人利用的人和利用人的人 如果用简单的二分法的话，人可以分为两种：被人利用的人和利用人的人。
窃以为作为智囊+教授，应该属于后一个集合。您在窃笑他诲辱您的智商之时，他可能也在暗笑吧。智囊们的工作其实就是给卑鄙的行为穿上漂亮的外衣罢了，其实质当然离不开利益。
所以给智囊做苦口婆心的劝说工作是一方面。不过个人以为更有效的途径是直接抨击教授的专业操守和诚信。
家园 【原创】争论二：对该教授文章的讨论以及西方媒体的所谓中立 教授的文章
教授把文章（也即我转贴的这一系列）发给我，说这是藏人心中普遍的想法，它既不代表西方，也不代表中国政法，他是一个独立的第三方的看法，希望我好好阅读。
看完此话，我暗自想笑。独立第三方，不愿透露姓名，这是多么熟悉的字眼啊，CNN，BBC等最常见的就是这几个词组了。西西河里还有不少不愿透露姓名的独立第三方人士认为，西方肮脏无耻，下流卑鄙呢。但是回答当然还是要严肃的。
我回信说，我会和朋友校对其真实性。希望更多的人了解，从而知道更多的真实。一些情节是假的，但文章应当是有价值的（客套一下）。作假的地方是他说中国政府宣传5个汉人女孩被烧死，实际上中国宣传的是4个汉族女孩和1个藏族女孩。他提到了几次，但无疑这是错误的。
此外，我无法认同他们火烧藏人和回族的商店，任何高尚的目标都无法通过卑劣的手段来实现。他的一些说法让我更不舒服，他居然问警察为什么不帮助这些女孩。不作为的警察需要被谴责，如果在场的话。但藏独分子应该首先要反省自身。
他们宣称为了自由战斗，但他们的自由是什么？我们不知道。汉人，回人不是他们的敌人，他们宣称为了民主，为什么不敢去烧政府大楼？在中国的论坛上，为了自己合法利益和政府斗争的人，会受到绝大多数的人拥护。我们不是瞎子，但我们真的不明白藏独为什么把汉人和回人看作敌人。其他民族心甘情愿给藏人更多优惠，而藏独这么做只会让事情难以解决。
西方媒体的中立问题
教授回信谢谢俺对里面内容的澄清，并欢迎我将来指出别的错误。此时教授倍感得意，问俺：这是来自西藏的声音，西方媒体没有修饰过。你想想看，如果西方媒体发表了，你和你的朋友们是不是又觉得我们在攻击中国呢？我们不发表呢？我们不就和中共一样在欺负藏人吗？我希望你仔细慎重的思考你那个西方媒体同样有偏见的结论。
俺一看就乐了，这不是低估俺的智商吗？于是俺决定从三方面回击：1，文章真实性；2。西方媒体在火炬事件上的偏见；3，以彼之道，还施彼身，把无敌哥的文章送他欣赏，并希望他能一并发表。
我回信说我会和朋友们讨论并调查那篇文章的真实性。事实上，我们从来没有认为这种文章不该发表，不仅西方媒体，中国媒体也应该发表。如果我们不知道另一边的观点，我们什么目标也办不到。中国的负面新闻应该被报道，只要是真实的，我们不仅不反对，相反对此类报道很尊敬。
但西方媒体的确有偏见，我们经历了不少。例如奥运圣火经过伦敦的时候，那么多华人在街上，远远超过藏独，但BBC和其他的电视里面却全是藏独的身影。以后的巴黎和旧金山也是如此。他们喜欢采访藏独，就算采访中国人，也喜欢寻找那些同情藏独的人士。我们感到震惊，这就是为什么中国人随后要抗议西方媒体。但就算这样，还有西方媒体（如德国明镜周刊），居然说抗议人士是中国政府雇佣的，这不觉得荒唐吗？难道报道双方的观点就这么困难吗？西方媒体需要给我们同样的机会！我也有一篇文章（无敌哥痛骂达赖的那片），藏人写的，和您那个藏人持不同的观点，如果媒体能把这两篇同时发表，我将非常高兴。
我们经常看BBC,CNN,德国之声，法国广播电台等，我们发现这些媒体喜欢邀请不受我们欢迎的民运人士，并称呼他们是中立的学者，但我们知道他们既不是学者也不能代表我们。他们宣称代表了正义，却逐渐丧失了信誉。民主是好得，但他们辱没了民主这个词。有时间的话，你可以Google一下网民对曹长青，凌峰，焦国标，茉莉等人的评价。西方媒体如果希望中立报道中国的新闻，首先要和这些臭名昭著的民运分子说再见。我对此感到悲哀，我曾经也很信任和支持他们，但他们玷污了民主这个词，我讨厌他们。
本帖一共被 1 帖 引用 (帖内工具实现)家园 相信大多数中国人都讨厌他们
家园 送花 我现在已经不想去反驳那些人。
和他们辩论不会有任何结果，总是不断地重复重复，感觉就是在浪费自己的时间。
现在再想想，还后悔当初在他们身上花时间，他们又算什么呢？远在千里之外，指手画脚，无非是自己爽爽而已，既改变不了TG的政策，也改变不了XZ在中国掌控之下的事实，更加无法对我们的生活有实质性的影响。
这位教授引用博客来作为自己的证据，就可以看出他学术水平不怎么样了，也许又是一个靠着China这个buzz word吃饭的人吧。
- 复 送花
家园 他们可不光是自己爽。 光自M哪那么大瘾？那可是大笔的银子，大家一块HIGH的大PARTY。对这种靠“真相”吃饭的人，一定要斗争。当然要有理，有力，有节。不过，没必要和它较真动气，不值。有功夫多影响一下你力所能及的，身边的人倒是真的。
- 复 送花
家园 回花，中国政府应该成立学术基金，以学术对学术 通过政府打击他们，只能助长他们的悲情意识，和所谓的与共产党做对的英雄情结。最好的办法，莫过于奖励一批敢于讲出真相的西方知识分子，通过他们的手剥掉这些伪专家的画皮。
家园 中国政府要干的事情太多了... 我看那些人到现在还没有明白到底要干什么,我对那些人很失望.
我觉得政府应该干的是,
1)成立一个英文的电视台,总部放在香港,争取全球发言权.
2)成立一个类似美国的民主基金会的东西,为自己的全球利益服务.
家园 这事我们以前就做过啊 最好的办法，莫过于奖励一批敢于讲出真相的西方知识分子，不是exactly the same，但大意差不多。
50年代调查细菌战的委员会不就是？其中鼎鼎大名的就是李约瑟啦。
60年代也有啊，比如巴黎的毛派学者。
再说个国外的例子，苏联三十年代也请了些西方进步知识分子去参观，比较有名的大概是罗曼罗兰和纪德了-----虽然，纪德回去以后大放厥词，很快就不算进步知识分子了。
几年前看某网站（中联部？忘了）新闻，美国的共产党还到中国访问座谈呢。