淘客熙熙

主题:中国的政治风险 -- 风烟滚滚来天半

共:💬89 🌺266 🌵1
分页树展主题 · 全看首页 上页
/ 6
下页 末页
        • 家园 豆在强调党对军队的控制力没有那么强

          首先,拿苏联解体来对比并不合适,苏联解体前戈尔巴乔夫搞的那套东西已经把国内思想彻底搞乱了。89年中国没有翻天,一是因为搞乱的时间还不长,二是老邓为代表的那一批老革命还在,大风大浪经历过的人比较会掌控局面,而苏联就没这样的条件了。

          其次,也是最根本的原因,政府要致力于,并且正在致力于解决国内的问题,核心是建立健康运行的经济和分配体系。别的什么力量,也许挑刺可以,但是要自己单独上台执政,没有这个能力。

          再者,这个时代已经庸俗化了,虽说不是没有理想主义的人,但多半是网上骂骂,茶余饭后闲谈,真要上街,能有几人?

        • 家园 A British guy wrote a book

          about China. (Personally, I think he wrote the book just to cash in the very obvious surge of interest in China since the collapse and the whole G-2 brouhaha.)he's more HKC than most Chinese. He argued that China's rise to superpower status would fundamentally change not only the global power balance, but also the very definition of "progress" and "modernization". I don't know how correct his prediction would be, obviously, nobody knows, I don't' think he is as confident in his argument as it appears. Anyway, one of his argument is that we should stop treating China as just another "communist country", obviously China isn't one, and we should not drag the whole debate about China through the whole "democracy vs authoritarianism" mud hole, which is a very recent phenomenon. According to him, China, as of 2009, should be seen more as a modernized version of imperial dynasty, like the dynasties China used to have. I think he makes sense. Another thing I think Western medias get right is their assessment that the very legitimacy of the government and the system lie with the ability of the government to keep economy grow at high rate and improve standard of living, obviously, the government agrees with them, that's the government puts so much stock into protecting 8% growth rate. Right now, obviously the economy is still growing at very high rate, and probably will continue to grow for quite a while. But eventually there will be a crisis, and what happens during the crisis will test if China could successful reclaim what many Chinese believe to be its rightful place in the world. Remember, imperial dynasty always plunge into stagnation, chaos, uprising and civil war after their peak, I don't think China could become the US if the current system could not survive economic calamity as severe as the great depression like the US did. And i don't think Chinese system as of 2009, could survive an economic calamity as severe as the great depression. The bottom line is everybody agrees that China has political risk and several economic crisis could test not just the current crop of leaders but also the political system as a whole while nobody, at least nobody I know of, believes that an severe crisis could fundamentally change American political system. That's the fundamental problem: resilience of society and political system, and that's the reason so many westerners and Chinese, ask the very legitimate question regarding potential system-wrecking instability. Every time somebody conjures up another campaign against what I see, minor, insignificant domestic detractors such as internet, liberal opposition (there is no way they can or should be allowed to, govern China, at least not until they grow an spine in their dealing with the west, nonetheless, I'm dismayed by the fact that the government reacts so strongly to a bunch of basically "useless" talkers who would never possesses the resources and organizational skills to threaten the government.) and even those who, for all I know, were doing the right thing such as demanding answers regarding why so many schools were shoddily built, I find myself less sure of China's future. I have no doubt that China will continue to grow for quite a while, but believe me, eventually, there will be crisis, not just regular crisis, serious crisis, it's statistically inevitable. Then what? I don't see the government preparing itself for the sure-to-come political challenge if crisis indeed broke out, all I see is increasingly intolerant policy against the media, against the internet, against anything and anybody who doesn't sing along with the government. It's really discouraging. And I don't kn ow what to do and how to make of it.

          I'm not saying China would plunge into chaos next year, as you said, there are still room to grow out of the problem. But if there were no system change, not outright, not overnight, but gradual change that should have begun NOW, whatever crisis that eventually happens will cost China far more than what we can imagine, just how much more? Just read what happened after the collapse of Han Dynasty, Jin Dynasty, Tang Dynasty and Qing Dynasty. I just hope that China could be a China where, when bad thing happens, people would worry about losing their homes in a foreclosure crisis rather than worrying about losing their lives in a civil war. Again, they should start working on it NOW, however, as far as I can see, the only thing they work on is to spend countless amount of money on coming up better ways to shut people up.

          • 家园 土共政府之所以存在,是因为还没碰上足够大的危机

            这个就是你的基本观点吧?

            嗯,我同意你的观点。

            这个跟"Anything has a beginning, has an end"一样,在哲学上是正确的。

            这个观点同时也适应于其它所有政党,所有政府,所有政体,所有国家,所有民族,所有物种。

            另外土共并不需要保持8%的增长。它只要证明自己做得比别的政府更好,更聪明(或者更不白痴),更有决心,更有毅力,就行了。这个任务在近些年来似乎变得越来越容易了。

    • 家园 可能没有这么乐观吧

      湖北石首事件,贵州瓮安事件都是震惊中外的严重社会骚乱事件。

      用百度一搜,群体性事件就可以知道。

      http://news.163.com/09/1221/10/5R24MLFB0001124J.html

      http://www.chinavalue.net/NewsDig/NewsDig.aspx?DigId=24423

      • 家园 恩恩 确实严重

        其实石首事件我根本不明白为什么上万人会参与呢?不可能是为了正义之类的吧……那成千上万的人到底是被什么驱动着啊……基本上对他们都是事不关己的啊……哪来这么大动力……就是趁机发泄?那就还好。你看法国过个年 烧了几百辆车,简直打砸抢烧,社会也没怎么样……关键是怕人组织,怕人利用,那就真的困难了。

        • 家园 没什么奇怪的

          以前看过本书叫“隐藏的逻辑”,介绍了一个理想的暴乱模型。

          假设100个人每个人都有0-99不等的门槛值,当暴乱的人数达到某个门槛值时,具有这个特征门槛值的人便会加入暴乱。如果某个人的门槛值是0,别一个是1,接下来一个是2,如此类推。那么在这种情况下,一场大暴乱是在所难免的。那个门槛值是0的激进分子或是教唆分子首先引爆了动乱,接着门槛值为1的人加入其中,接着门槛值为2的人也加入其中...暴乱于是一发不可收拾,最终把“高门槛值”的人也卷了进来。

          也就是说,具有真正意义上的暴乱分子有可能只是很少的一部分势力,它们引发暴动后,激化易于暴动的人先产生暴动的倾向,从而加剧暴动人群数目,诱导不易于暴动的人加入战团,从而像滚雪球一样产生大规模效应。

          暴动的不可收拾的前提是有一个连续门槛值的人群存在,如果把门槛值为n的人去掉,那么第n个人暴动之后,由于门槛值的断层,使得门槛值为n+1的人不加入暴乱,暴动失去继续增大的可能,人数达到最大值n。

        • 家园 几百辆车?

          据法国内政部统计,12月31日晚烧了1137辆车,比去年降低了0.9%,政府表示满意。

        • 家园 我想主要是没有信仰,缺乏信任吧

          现在一说共产主义信仰,大家谁信呢?现实生活中,大家一切朝钱看。

          而地方官员也没有了信仰,所以拼命捞钱。那么更加激化了和民众的矛盾,这样的话,如果矛盾积累到一定程度,就会激化,就会白热化,最后爆发出来。最怕是和民族矛盾结合在一起,例如广东韶关,引发了新疆骚乱呢。

          至于最后怎么样,只有天知道呢

          • 家园 政府不需要大多数人有信仰,一切向钱看是最好的

            一切向钱看,那么只要让人们能弄到钱能致富就可以了。中国二十年来在某些人的呶呶不休中挺立不倒而且越来越强,就是因为多数人一切向钱看并且能挣到钱。

            • 家园 呵呵,那么一切向钱看的话

              政府官员就拼命捞钱吧,贪污腐败那有什么,只要给钱,国家利益,军事机密都可以出卖吗,一切向钱看吗,就像潜伏里面的谢若林“如果你一枪打不死我,我又活过来了,咱俩还能做生意,只要价格公道”

              • 家园 首先你歪曲了我的意思,这证明你没听懂我的话的含义

                其次

                若夫许由、续牙、晋伯阳、秦颠颉、卫侨如、狐不稽、重明、董不识、卞随、务光、伯夷、叔齐,此十二人者,皆上见利不喜,下临难不恐,或与之天下而不取,有萃辱之名,则不乐食谷之利。夫见利不喜,上虽厚赏无以劝之;临难不恐,上虽严刑无以威之;此之谓不令之民也。此十二人者,或伏死于窟穴,或槁死于草木,或饥饿于山谷,或沉溺于水泉。有民如此,先古圣王皆不能臣,当今之世,将安用之?

                若夫豫让为智伯臣也,上不能说人主使之明法术度数之理以避祸难之患,下不能领御其众以安其国;及襄子之杀智伯也,豫让乃自黔劓,败其形容,以为智伯报襄子之仇。是虽有残刑杀身以为人主之名,而实无益於智伯若秋毫之末。此吾之所下也,而世主以为忠而高之。古有伯夷叔齐者,武王让以天下而弗受,二人饿死首阳之陵。若此臣,不畏重诛,不利重赏,不可以罚禁也,不可以赏使也,此之谓无益之臣也。吾所少而去也,而世主之所多而求也。

                一,相关的典故,哪怕是白话文的故事,你没听说过;

                二,相关的传统思想,你不会萃取精华摒除糟粕令之为我所用;

                三,这两段文章的出处,估计你在百度之前并不清楚;这种程度的文言文估计你也未必能看懂。

                • 家园 呵呵,俺就是一农民又当如何

                  比不上你,时不时吊几句洋文,时不时又搞几句古文。

                  不过好像也有某领导知道,“吏不畏吾严,而畏吾廉;民不服吾能,而服吾公。公则民不敢慢;廉则吏不敢欺。公生明,廉生威。”

                  还有建国大业里的那句台词:“不反腐,亡国,反腐,亡党,难啊!”

                  • 家园 那台词是见过大爷里的

                    脑残的编剧编出来这么一段话自以为得计,其实根本没看透党国跑路的原因,却忽悠了不少看热闹的,党国的根本问题在于片面的城市为中心的现代化而忽视了占中国人口80%以上的农业人口,造成上层和底层的疏离;过于迷信武力而一味的颟顸无能又失去了不少原来站在他们一边的城市精英.至于开国大典里,老常的经典台词是:打牌你不行,打仗我不行.

分页树展主题 · 全看首页 上页
/ 6
下页 末页


有趣有益,互惠互利;开阔视野,博采众长。
虚拟的网络,真实的人。天南地北客,相逢皆朋友

Copyright © cchere 西西河