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主题:【原创】有一种骗局叫做方舟子--揭穿方舟子的伪装 -- 思想的行者

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        • 家园 请注意2005年申请院士的时间点,和"国际期刊"的条件限
          • 家园 武汉法院宣判的时候也在2005年吧

            所以你的质疑不成立

            • 家园 那会网上热议了好一阵,论文数目上是非很清楚。

              当时周围至少5个从武汉大学,武汉医学院出来的,武汉法院的判决就是笑料,他们都觉得丢面子。

              • 家园 没有去进行调查的人会认为肖的论文数只有0

                因为他们没有查过

                所以,你说的什么什么大学的同学的看法根本就不算什么,你确定他们去具体查阅了肖传国的论文了吗?

                美国泌尿学权威、密执根州Beaumont Hospitals (这是美国有名的一家医院)泌尿科主任 Dr. Kenneth M. Peters 等在First World Congress on Spina Bifida Research and Care Urology会议上的的摘要,报告了对九个病人在他们医院里实施“肖氏手术”一年后的总结报告。(收录在 JOURNAL OF UROLOGY Volume: 181 Issue: 4 Pages: 310-311, 原文在网上也可以查到:http://medicalconference.spinabi ... e6fa5%7D/UROL27.PDF,顺便说一句,这个结果获得了会议的第三名奖)。网上也有中文翻译:

                背景:通过一个显微手术连接腰骶运动神经,建立一个皮肤-中枢神经-膀胱的人工反射弧,以恢复脊柱裂病人的膀胱排尿功能,这个概念是肖氏介绍并提出。我们在这里报告这一全新治疗手段1年间的结果和经验。

                方法:9个病人,3男6女,中位年龄8岁,跨度从6岁到37岁。手术前,对他们进行广泛评估。神经重建手术一直在神经生理指标监控下进行。术后评估包括:1个月后的神经系统的检查,随访问卷调查和排尿动力学试验,后者包括在术后3,6,9和12个月对肖氏反射弧的刺激。病人的随访要持续3年。

                结果:9个病人中,5个在出生后24小时内实行胎儿脊髓膨出闭合手术,3个则在未出生时行子宫内脊髓膨出闭合手术,1个从没做过手术. 平均手术时间是183分钟,平均失血量为57毫升。手术中没有出现任何不良症状。病人在医院平均时间是3.4天。手术后相关的症状包括1个病人脚下垂,3个病人伤口渗液, 和1个病人长时间不能站立。1个月后,神经学检查显示有2个病人的走路得到很大改变,8个病人出现多多少少不同程度的下肢肌肉乏力,但随着理疗和时间的推移,他们恢复到或接近于术前水平。有趣的是,术后几个月,有几个病人突然感觉排尿能力变弱,或大便断断续续或便意增强,接着,情况好转,能够开始自我控制排尿和主动排尿。12个月后的尿流动力学复查发现,7个儿童能够间续性自主排尿平均达133+75毫升,余尿119+125毫升,刺激反射弧相应皮肤,有7个儿童非常明显出现排尿肌的压力上升。总的来说,1年后,9个病人全部表现出通过人工反射弧引起的膀胱收缩能力和/或膀胱的主动排尿能力。术后1年,6个病人报告大便功能也得到恢复。有78%的病人说他们愿意再次进行这样的手术。

                结论:自主排尿功能可以早在神经线路再造手术6个月后即出现。术后病人下肢肌肉乏力的症状能随着理疗和时间的推移得到显著改善。

                虽然不是这个专业的,读了这个报告我还是能理解一点肖式手术的意义、副作用和局限性(即使这是个成功的手术)。脊柱裂病会导致膀胱排尿功能障碍,进一步引起肾病乃至肾衰竭死亡。肖式手术就是为了解决膀胱排尿功能障碍将其他神经连接到膀胱上解决排尿功能障碍,避免肾病肾衰竭。肖式手术并不能完全解决脊柱裂病(说的不对请老肖等纠正),但能解决脊柱裂病引起的排尿问题。这是它的局限性,大概也是有些患者不理解的地方。可能的副作用是脚下垂、伤口渗液、长时间不能站立、下肢肌肉乏力等。这也好理解。动了神经必然会引起这样的不良反应。问题是能不能完全或部分恢复。对患者来说,如果不能完全或部分恢复,用牺牲一条腿的部分甚至全部功能换取排尿功能恢复以避免肾病肾衰竭是否值得?这都是需要回答的问题。Dr. Peters 至少给出了初步可信的结果:1年后,9个病人全部表现出通过人工反射弧引起的膀胱收缩能力和/或膀胱的排空能力。这个结果是用科学的测量(尿流动力学)检测出来的。而且,副作用有,但可以完全或部分恢复。

                外链出处

                很遗憾,上文的链接我这里打不开。

                我用谷歌搜索了一篇

                From March 15 to 18, the First World Congress on Spina Bifida Research and Care convened in Orlando, Fla., under the direction of the Spina Bifida Association of America (SBA). This multidisciplinary meeting involved representatives from more than 30 countries around the world and represented a broad range of fields including neurosurgery, orthopedics, urology, developmental pediatrics, nursing and epidemiology/public health. Approximately 20 pediatric neurosurgeons from a wide range of academic and private practices attended and discussed a variety of important topics including the management of hydrocephalus and tethered spinal cord, transitional care and the controversial new procedure, lower urinary tract refunctionalization by somatic/autonomic nerve root transposition in children, commonly known as the Xiao procedure.

                Chuan-Guo Xiao, MD, presented the urology keynote lecture and reviewed outcome data for the “Xiao procedure,” lower urinary tract refunctionalization by somatic/autonomic nerve root transposition in children with spinal cord abnormalities. He reported that 1,320 patients have undergone this procedure in China. Follow-up data were available for 400 patients: 87 percent demonstrated effectiveness of the procedure as measured by freedom from catheterization and freedom from recurrent urinary tract infections. Dr. Xiao then stayed for an additional day at the end of the meeting to present a one-day symposium on the procedure. This represented the first time these techniques had been taught in North America.

                外链出处

                以下链接是对肖传国手术的一些介绍

                The procedure, commonly called the Xiao procedure, involves the surgical transposition of functional lumbar ventral roots to sacral roots. Typically the L5 ventral root is partially or completely divided and rerouted/anastamosed to the S3 root or complex of sacral roots containing S3 and S4. The rationale for the procedure centers on the spinal reflex-arc and on the capability of somatic motor axons to regenerate into and replace preganglionic axons. Clinically vigorous stimulation within the dermatome of the transposed lumbar root initiates a spinal reflex that results in bladder contraction. Experimental work done by Xiao and colleagues in the late 1980s and early 1990s in rat, cat and dog models demonstrated histological evidence of bladder reinnervation. Between 1995 and 2002, 86 patients with spinal cord injuries were treated, and the reported success rate was 80 percent. The National Institutes of Health sponsored a trial for 40 spinal-cord-injured patients at New York University in 2003. An 80 percent response rate was reported. Between 2000 and 2003, 40 patients with spina bifida were treated and an 85 percent effectiveness rate was observed. Between 2003 and the time of the meeting presentation, approximately 1,300 children had undergone the Xiao procedure in China. Only 400 patients were available for follow-up due to cultural and geographic issues, but Dr. Xiao and his team observed an 87 percent rate of effectiveness.

                As a result of these reported outcomes there has been great excitement among spina bifida patients and their families about the procedure. Other urologists and neurosurgeons throughout the world have become sufficiently interested in learning the procedure, and Dr. Xiao has lectured and operated extensively. The Orlando meeting was the first time that he taught the surgical technique in a postgraduate course in North America. More than 75 attendees were present and were evenly divided between urologists and neurosurgeons.

                The Xiao procedure has been performed in the United States by a group from William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Mich., led by urologist Ken Peters. Dr. Peters traveled to China to learn the procedure and invited Dr. Xiao to be present at the initial surgeries in Michigan. Financing was achieved through philanthropic benefactors, and follow-up has been comprehensive and essentially uniform. Dr. Peters also presented at the Orlando postgraduate course. A total of nine patients were operated upon and their outcomes were reviewed with up to a three-year follow-up. Dr. Peters reported that two patients are no longer requiring catheterization and that seven of nine patients have some measureable return of reflex. Bowel function improved more quickly and more extensively than bladder function. Eight-to-nine patients had bilateral leg weakness initially, yet their weakness improved back to baseline such that only one patient has residual weakness. One patient has foot drop.

                外链出处

                肖传国手术的效果显然是被方舟子们给歪曲抹黑了的,肖传国确实是一个做出了相当贡献的学者加医生,这样的人被方舟子陷害是让人愤怒的。

                • 家园 你怎么知道别人没查?文章都是命根子,谁有多少水都在那Re

                  你这调查完全是笑话。这些来龙去脉我都看过。

                  我的结论,肖传国在手术问题上两头骗是肯定的。他的东西,作为科研是有价值的,作为手术是不成熟,未得到充分证明的。这样不成熟的手术就在国内直接在病人身上做,费用很高,是不符合一个医生的道德的。

                  • 家园 我不怀疑他们没有查,我怀疑他们没有充分调查

                    请问不充分调查可以确定肖传国发表了多少论文

                    一个人要调查中国有多少人,然后他就只到中国一个省去调查,他就可以知道中国有多少人了?

                    至于是不是两头骗,我前面帖子贴出的最后一个链接中已经介绍了昧国方面做的实验---注意不是由肖传国做的,而是昧国人做的

                    The National Institutes of Health sponsored a trial for 40 spinal-cord-injured patients at New York University in 2003. An 80 percent response rate was reported. Between 2000 and 2003, 40 patients with spina bifida were treated and an 85 percent effectiveness rate was observed.
                    2003年,联邦健康研究所资助了一项在纽约大学进行的对40个病人的实验,报告了百分之八十的respond rate。在2000年到2003年,40个病人被医治,并且有85%的有效率。

                    The Xiao procedure has been performed in the United States by a group from William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak, Mich., led by urologist Ken Peters. Dr. Peters traveled to China to learn the procedure and invited Dr. Xiao to be present at the initial surgeries in Michigan. Financing was achieved through philanthropic benefactors, and follow-up has been comprehensive and essentially uniform. Dr. Peters also presented at the Orlando postgraduate course. A total of nine patients were operated upon and their outcomes were reviewed with up to a three-year follow-up. Dr. Peters reported that two patients are no longer requiring catheterization and that seven of nine patients have some measureable return of reflex. Bowel function improved more quickly and more extensively than bladder function. Eight-to-nine patients had bilateral leg weakness initially, yet their weakness improved back to baseline such that only one patient has residual weakness. One patient has foot drop.

                    肖氏手术在昧国由PETERS博士领导的一个小组进行了实验,Peters博士曾经到中国跟肖传国学习肖氏手术,在九人实验中,Peters报告有两个病人已经完全不需要catheterization ,九人中有七个人有了可以被观测到的好转.......

                    你确定PETERs博士也在骗人是吗?

            • 家园 4篇 IF小于4的文章
    • 家园 肖传国的确两边通吃

      ◇◇新语丝(www.xys.org)(xys.dxiong.com)(xys.3322.org)(xys.dyndns.info)◇◇

        

        作者:NY133X

        最近heru1在《又一个在美全职的人参选中国院士》的短文中提到华中科技

      大学的肖传国。肖传国应该是在1999年之前就在NYU全职,因为在NIH的基金库

      CRISP (http://crisp.cit.nih.gov/crisp/crisp_query.generate_screen), Dr.

      Chuan-guo Xiao的R01(01A2申请版本或第三次申请,标题为:

      SKIN-CNS-BLADDER REFLEX ARC FOR MICTURITION AFTER SCI)始于1999年。任

      华中科技大学同济医学院教授应在2001年之前,因为他于2001年获得国家科学技

      术奖二等奖 (人工建立体神经-内脏神经反射弧恢复截瘫后膀胱功能)

      (http://db.sgst.cn/main3/jiang6.htm)。

        肖传国于2003年成为973项目的PI

      (http://www.moe.edu.cn/edoas/website18/info12126.htm)。课题为:神经

      损伤修复和功能重建的应用基础研究。由于没能找到其申请摘要, 无法与他的

      NIH R01比较。但是,细看他最近发表在中华医学杂志上的文章“人工体神经-内

      脏神经反射弧的神经电生理研究” (该文注明为国家973重点基础研究发展计划

      基金资助项目(2003CB515304))(见万方数据

      http://www.wanfangdata.com.cn/qikan/periodical.Articles/zhyx/zhyx2005/

      0519/051905.htm),其摘要与他的R01申请的摘要(见NIH基金库CRISP)很相似。

      很可能肖传国R01申请的中文版就是那个973项目!

        在PUBMED搜索XIAO CG找到12篇文章(多数为国内期刊)。自从肖传国于

      1999年以NYU的名义申请的R01后,他没有以NYU的名发表文章,倒是以华中科技

      大学同济医学院的名义发表与R01基金直接相关的文章。NIH的The Office of

      Research Integrity (ORI) http://ori.dhhs.gov/ 迟早会查对的。

        象肖传国这样两边通吃通骗(教职,基金申请,发表文章等)有可能成为科

      学院院所士只能发生在中国。

      • 家园 关于肖传国在纽约大学任兼职还是全职

        我已经在前面的帖子中贴出了武汉法院的证据,其中明确的说明了肖传国在纽约大学任副教授,而且是兼职。

        所谓的两边通吃的指控就是一个诬陷了。

    • 家园 被方舟子诋毁的肖氏手术的效果---爬行女孩小艳丽

      请看优酷视频

      外链出处

      • 家园 做到调查研究后客观认识很难吗?

        黑方舟子黑成肖粉,有你的。

        肖氏反射弧的原理我在多年前了解过。我不是学生物的,只能肤浅说说:某一部分神经坏死,引起某些器官无法正常工作;于是把另一些好的神经接上,患者通过一定的锻炼,形成新的神经控制。新的神经和坏死的神经不是一类神经,这是此技术的创意之处也是技术上风险之处。这个点子怎么样?我感觉是值得研究的。由于我国相关监管的不严格,临床试验居然得以大规模进行,结果成功率低,对多数患者无效,甚至在部分人身上引起新的残疾。应该看到,成功率低不代表没有成功的,但个例不能代表统计结果。老肖是搞西医的,难逃统计分析。如果他搞中医,将疗法神秘化,说不定今天仍混得很滋润。

        在科学史上这种最终被证明不算成功的创意不计其数,可问题是,老肖无视患者的安全与幸福,中美两边骗,两边通吃,继续其高危手术。方舟子对其打假,开始是攻击其学术不端(这是老方传统强项),通过比较他在中美的不同宣传揭露其两边骗的情况。然后老方又引用了若干受害患者的说辞。我认为,对老肖真正致命的是,手术实在成功率低,引发社会问题,主管机构也不能容他。

        教主一向是论点先行,我叹你生错了时代。如果在明末,你应该能成为东林干将。

        • 家园 不是多数无效,而是成功率达到80%

          如果有效率那么低,那么应该有更多的人质疑肖传国得的中国科技进步一等奖。

          当然了这个80%的成功率是肖传国自己说的还是肖传国引用其他机构的证据我没有继续进行调查。

          反正肖传国现在又在深圳做手术了,如果有投诉,方舟子可以利用啊,但是方舟子没有去找投诉,说明成功率还是比较高的。

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