主题：【原创】即使没有文革,中国经济也不会提前进入第二世界 -- 葡萄
道德本身随历史不断演化，并非出于什么绝对律令。与旧约里杀尽敌人妇孺的教训相比，奴隶制本身在历史上也算是一种进步。究其原因，无非是随着生产的发展，战胜者可以养得起奴隶并且通过这个来获利。
南北战争时的美国，反对奴隶制的力量比独立战争时强大。这是因为经过近一百年人们变得更虔诚了？更道德了？还是因为工业资本主义更加发展了？
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转型的代价是一代或几代人的付出，但成功的话，“后人乘凉”
那个时代，可没有统计平民伤亡的说法。再看看当时美国总人口多少？
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而殖民、工业化与资本主义的全球扩张是同一个历史进程的不同侧面。
毛刘周朱的传和年谱都出完了，凑起来就基本上含一部文革史了。
除了尽可能多阅读，还得是个战略和战术大师，否则那是很痛苦地
是啊，中华道统的道，是什么？这是个好问题，我们中国人生来就处在孔孟之道当中，可是这个道统的道，到底是什么？我想起不知哪位河友的话，他转述的是老日本鬼子的话，说我们中国有孔孟之道，讲究“天下兴亡匹夫有责”，所以中国人会抚养日本的遗孤，日本没有孔孟之道，他们不会去抚养遗孤。这让我也想到西欧发生的受害国民抚养德国遗孤的事情。西欧有基督的仁爱和饶恕，中土有孔孟的仁义和中庸之道以及不忍之心。我想，大约中庸之道，就是中华道统的道吧。
和您对话，那得打起10分的精神，不可马虎啊，喜欢并且能够看您文字的，并且可以和您谈论的，大多都具有很好的理论素养，我还是尽可能打打酱油做观众不要出声的好啊。
见他的著作《道德理想国的覆灭》。有异议你找他去。
life that somebody cited a novel as historical evidence.
I knew Sherman burned down Atlanta. As to how many times, I do not know. You tell me.
I want to see a debate with reason and reasonable evidence. Not 信口開河的百萬或千萬.
or articles that lend support to your personal judgment?
南北战争时的美国，反对奴隶制的力量比独立战争时强大。
--At 1789, among 13 founding states, slave-states vs non-slave ones, close to 50:50. More states were free states by 1860s.Esp., those in the mid-west. Populationwise, North was definitely larger than the south.
这是因为经过近一百年人们变得更虔诚了？更道德了？
---There is no measure of 虔诚. So I have no answer for you.
Keep in mind, during the independence war, Yankees needed to lock in the southern slave states for a common cause against Britain. Yankees compromised a lot, which was obvious during the Constitution meeting.
What I can only say is that Northern non-slave states were more intolerant of the slavery because since 1820s, the British threat was gone. Yankees took more violent actions over time.
If you read the English documents, slavery issue popped out as a heated issue several times before 1860s. 1861 was not the first crisis year.
But both North/South sides took action to suppress the final showdown. Final showdown was triggered by the clear majority of non-slave states over slave states and endless interference from Yankees over southerner's internal "affairs". For Southerners, they were on a losing track if they still stayed in the Union.
When it comes to morality, human rights and human civility, I do observe a progressive trend in US, Europe and China. It MIGHT have nothing to do with 虔诚, but more due to external pressure (China's case, so that it is no longer another North Korea), economic well-being, and education (US and China).
In 1920/1930s, Chinese were more or less treated as yellow monkeys in States. But 1960s civil right changed it. I SEE NO role of INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION in 1960s, but I did see civility increase in 1960s.
还是因为工业资本主义更加发展了？
-hehe, you have your viewpoint, I keep mine. I do not think 阶级斗争理论 applies everywhere, any time. I see historical facts and I want people to convince me with facts, 而不是馬列主義教條, I saw too much in my early years back in China.
keeps me trembling.
I was so lucky that I am a Chinese, not a Cambodian.
Maybe some people on this forum enjoy "continuous revolution". I am definitely not one of them.
points.
而我说的国内学者的观点，在生活里在课堂上，在交流里都遇到这样的情况。不过虽然这些人是少数，而且他们的观点有的说日本殖民好有的说英美殖民好具体也不一致。他们的出发点其实都是中国文化落后了，靠中国自身无法摆脱他们眼中的愚昧与落后。
--屁話, even overseas Chinese like me think they are totally ignorant.
中国文化 were not born with 愚昧与落后. Why do not they cite 大秦帝国? Lots of practices of Chin are very Roman or American: such as meritcracy; promotion based on performance,not bloodline; head-based reward system (like today's pay-for-performance); equal opportunity.
這種哈巴狗scholars have superficial knowledge about Europe/America. They should live longer overseas and learn more.
BTW, I saw too many "visiting" scholars with broken English and little contact with local people.
所以要被西方殖民如何如何。而我的观点是，加拿大在独立前是殖民地。加拿大在独立时已经是工业国。还有加拿大和美国在开始工业化时国内没有封建地主。不存在社会激烈转型的基础。更不要说加拿大没有奴隶制了。
--colonies were usually not allowed to industrialize. Britain intentionally banned the textile tech transfer to America and Canada. Portugue did the same thing to Brazil.
Look at what happened to Han culture after they were colonized by Qin dynasty.
Those scholars are really ignorant.
至于拿不拿小说作证，俺有用过小说中的数字之类的么？我说，这些事情至于让你这么难以理解么？