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主题:【原创】揭穿一个流传已久的谎话帖,关于美国持枪自由 -- zhang11

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家园 这一点应该提到

District of Columbia v. Heller中高法法官的判决并不能理解为要推翻美国一大堆(限制买卖拥有使用)武器的法律。

To clarify that its ruling does not invalidate a broad range of existing firearm laws, the Court said:[149]

Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.[150]

家园 未来对第二修正案解释变化可能从这里出发

District of Columbia v. Heller判词里提到

The dissenting opinion, written by Justice Stevens, stated that:

The question presented by this case is not whether the Second Amendment protects a “collective right” or an “individual right.” Surely it protects a right that can be enforced by individuals. But a conclusion that the Second Amendment protects an individual right does not tell us anything about the scope of that right.[151]

家园 这个要看将来这方面的案子的上诉结果了
家园 你能找到不准私人拥有炮的法律吗?

我也很好奇这样的法律是否存在

你对私人军队的定义是什么?

在美国拥有自动武器是可以的Gun politics in the United State:“Since 1934, fully automatic weapons have been heavily regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), but are available to citizens who are not otherwise prohibited”--自1934年起,自动武器由ATF进行严格管理,但是只要没被法律禁止,是可以被公民拥有的。

至于为什么中国出口到美国的自动步枪要改成半自动的是另外一回事,美国获得枪支的渠道不只从中国进口。

家园 我说“最终”的意思是最高法院的解释不能被上诉

我不知道是否有在不改变法律的情况下最高法院的法官改变以前的最高法院法官裁决的例子。从18世纪到现在这是第一次由最高法院对第二修正案做出解释,我觉得除非国会修改宪法,这个解释被改变的概率非常小。

家园 我想你记错了:这不是第一次由最高法院对第二修正案做出解释

你说

从18世纪到现在这是第一次由最高法院对第二修正案做出解释

不是这样,至少1875, 1886, 1939各有一次最高法院对第二修正案的解释。见Firearm case law in the United State

Interpreting the Second Amendment

* United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875) - A post Civil War era case relating to the Ku Klux Klan depriving freed slaves basic rights such as freedom of assembly and to bear arms. The court ruled the First and Second Amendments "was not intended to limit the powers of the State governments in respect to their own citizens" and "has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government," respectively. In summary, it ruled the federal government could not file charges against citizens in federal court regarding violations of other citizens' constitutional rights. It was up to the states to protect the fundamental rights of its citizens when their rights were abridged by other citizens.

* Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886) - One of only two post-Civil War 19th Century U.S. Supreme Court cases to address the Second amendment, the sole other one being the above-mentioned United States v. Cruikshank. This second post-Civil War era case related to the meaning of the Second Amendment rights relating to militias and individuals. The court ruled the Second Amendment right was a right of individuals, not militias, and was not a right to form or belong to a militia, but related to an individual right to bear arms for the good of the United States, who could serve as members of a militia upon being called up by the Government in time of collective need. In essence, it declared, although individuals have the right to keep and bear arms, a state law prohibiting common citizens from forming personal military organizations, and drilling or parading, is still constitutional because prohibiting such personal military formations and parades does not limit a personal right to keep and bear arms:

"We think it clear that there are no sections under consideration, which only forbid bodies of men to associate together as military organizations, or to drill or parade with arms in cities and towns unless authorized by law, do not infringe the right of the people to keep and bear arms."

The Court also noted that the Second Amendment only restrained the federal government from regulating gun ownership, not the individual states:

"The second amendment declares that it shall not be infringed, but this, as has been seen, means no more than that it shall not be infringed by congress. This is one of the amendments that has no other effect than to restrict the powers of the national government, leaving the people to look for their protection against any violation by their fellow-citizens of the rights it recognizes to what is called in City of New York v. Miln, 11 Pet. [116 U.S. 252, 102] 139, the 'powers which relate to merely municipal legislation, or what was perhaps more properly called internal police,' 'not surrendered or restrained' by the constitution of the United States."

* United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939) - The court stated in part:

"In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense... The signification attributed to the term Militia appears from the debates in the Convention, the history and legislation of Colonies and States, and the writings of approved commentators. These show plainly enough that the Militia comprised all males physically capable of acting in concert for the common defense. 'A body of citizens enrolled for military discipline.' And further, that ordinarily when called for service these men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time."'

* District of Columbia v. Heller - The Supreme Court affirmed the decision of the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, by a vote of 5-4, holding:

"The Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit affirmed."[1]

家园 例子

我不知道是否有在不改变法律的情况下最高法院的法官改变以前的最高法院法官裁决的例子

最高法院的裁决不可上诉,所以以前的裁决被推翻是通过新的类似案例的裁决实现的。相信这是常识。最近一例请见

Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission

The decision completely overruled Austin v. Michigan Chamber of Commerce (1990) and partially overruled McConnell v. Federal Election Commission (2003).[4]

Austin v. Michigan Chamber of Commerce, 494 U.S. 652 (1990), was a case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held the Michigan Campaign Finance act which prohibited corporations from using treasury money to support or oppose candidates in elections did not violate the First and Fourteenth Amendments.

McConnell v. Federal Election Commission, 540 U.S. 93 (2003)[1], is a case in which the United States Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of most of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002, often referred to as the McCain–Feingold Act.

家园 谢谢,不过前几个好像不能算完全的解释

United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U.S. 542 (1875)说的是宪法只在对联邦政府制约时有效,当3K党不允许获得自由的奴隶拥有枪支的时候因为联邦政府不是其中的一方,所以宪法不适用。这是州政府的管辖范围。

Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886)说的是拥有枪支的权力不意味着公民有成立任何军事组织的权力。这还是个第二修正案适用性问题,对枪支权本身没有详细解释。

United States v. Miller, 307 U.S. 174 (1939)说的是联邦政府是否有权管制(不是禁止)某种枪支。最高法院的裁决是管制枪支不违反宪法。

我觉得2008年那个案子是第一次对拥枪权本身作出的解释。

我不知道District of Columbia v. Heller是不是在没有新的法律的情况下改变的以往最高法院的决定,等有时间了再看一下。

例子
家园 看来我确实不该用“最终”这个词
家园 这次也不是完全的解释

最高法院的文件自己说了:“。。。one should not expect it to clarify the entire field.

BTW,这次判决的核心是“The core holding in D.C. v. Heller is that the Second Amendment is an individual right intimately tied to the natural right of self-defense.”与政治没多大关系。

家园 是的,这也回答了楼主的问题
家园 没有技术保证的法律就是一句空话。

  法院同样也是国家机器的一部分,如果闹到最高法院判定政府违宪,要么就是政府低头,要么就是政府把法院干掉,根本就在军队站在哪边,在美国实际上就是大资产集团站在哪边,老百姓手上那几把破枪有个屁用。

  

家园 你不用给我堆那些洋码码,我看不懂。

  我好奇的是,既然美国不禁止私人拥有炮,为什么没听说美国老百姓有玩炮的?军工厂和收藏已消除功能的退役武器的不能算。

  美国玩飞机的极多,为什么美国没有私人能开飞机到靶场扫射着玩的?

家园 当然有玩炮的

有的炮仅仅是装饰品,有的炮真的能打,当然要你的农场足够大,不然邻居会告上门的。挺贵的就是,比枪贵多了。

玩飞机的就不那么自由了,因为上天的归FAA管。你停一架飞机在自己农场上可以随便扫射,上天就有人管了。

家园 看了下面几个回复没看明白,“谎言”倒底揭穿了么?

个人拥枪是不是对抗正腐的捏?下面牛腰说当初拥枪是与抗英有关,但是如果有群体事件怎么办?Broad吴Victory陈如果有枪呢?

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